Ninjatrader 8 Beta Testing

[sledge]

C'mon guys and gals throw us a bone when is it coming?? Heard a long time ago via a webinar was supposed to be by 2014 well soon it will be 1/2 gone!

Where were you in 2013? The bone was set back then for 2013! It was half gone already too.

[jeronymite]

Patience is a virtue

Belatedly I have just watched the Big Mike video of Raymond Deux's December 2013 update on NT8. A great update and some fabulous things coming, especially for NinjaScript developers!

As Ray said in that presentation, he has chosen to delay so that NT can release a product that shines. I agree and when NT8 comes out, that approach will help it to be as good as it can be for a defined V1 version of a product ... and the changes revealed so far seem to make NT8 a major evolution of NT7, similar to a new product but with all the flavours of the old still there but enhanced with rich new elements.

I congratulate Ray and the team on this decision and applaud this approach! And although I am practically hyper-ventilating with anticipation of getting my hands on NT8, I will cultivate patience for as long as it takes because I totally agree with the development approach being executed by NT.

That being said, a little more regular openness and insight into "guaranteed" new features is always welcome.

Happy days ahead!

[sledge]

Belatedly I have just watched the Big Mike video of Raymond Deux's December 2013 update on NT8. A great update and some fabulous things coming, especially for NinjaScript developers!

A lot of code to re-write and sell again! woo hooo!

[jeronymite]

Suggestions, based on BMT Dec 2013 update from NT

Having just watched the BMT December 2013 NT8 update from Ray, a couple of things occurred to me that, I think, would not require significant effort, but would definitely be of great value in NT8.

Ray showed that the Output Window will now have two separate tabbed windows to provide an additional output stream for whatever purpose the developer may want, but with a mention that it will be especially helpful for debugging.

Enhancement request: I have always found one text-based Output Window to be a substantial limitation. My desire is to see this good idea of having more than one Output Window extended to make it possible to have any number of Output Windows one wants. Each window should be able to have a tab with a name and colour of one's choice, and windows can be TextBox or RichTextBox windows if desired. Imagine the flexibility and the opportunities that would offer, not just for debugging, but the ability to stream the output from different strategies/instruments to different windows, with Rich Text, graphics, etc!

Thanks again for the NT8 effort! Great to see the progress being made.

[jeronymite]

It's an opportunity, not a problem

A lot of code to re-write and sell again! woo hooo!

I agree that a code rewrite is not an optimal outcome. My own view as a developer of a few decades is that sometimes the loss of backwards compatibility is warranted for dramatic leaps forward. That does not mean that loss of backwards compatibility is always required for those leaps, but the overhead of maintaining that compatibility can lead to bloatware and inflated pricing. So, in this case, despite my own preference for backwards compatibility, I am right behind the decision to do a quantum leap, rather than retain a lot of overhead. I also think of it as an opportunity to revisit my code and improve it.

[NinjaTrader_Brandon]

Hello jeronymite,

Thanks for your post.

I will submit to development your feature request to be taken into consideration for NinjaTrader 8

[Buckstar]

OutputWindow features for NT8 ((and interim solution))

Having just watched the BMT December 2013 NT8 update from Ray, a couple of things occurred to me that, I think, would not require significant effort, but would definitely be of great value in NT8.

Ray showed that the Output Window will now have two separate tabbed windows to provide an additional output stream for whatever purpose the developer may want, but with a mention that it will be especially helpful for debugging.

Enhancement request: I have always found one text-based Output Window to be a substantial limitation. My desire is to see this good idea of having more than one Output Window extended to make it possible to have any number of Output Windows one wants. Each window should be able to have a tab with a name and colour of one's choice, and windows can be TextBox or RichTextBox windows if desired. Imagine the flexibility and the opportunities that would offer, not just for debugging, but the ability to stream the output from different strategies/instruments to different windows, with Rich Text, graphics, etc!

Thanks again for the NT8 effort! Great to see the progress being made.

I've been using this dsOutputWindow with my Indicators and Strategies:

http://www.volumedigger.com/NinjaTrader/Miscellaneous/dsOutputWindow.aspx

It features the ability to set a color for each Print() statement. For example:
Print("message", Color.Green);

Also, you can create multiple instances of the output window. Just follow the example and remember to add the code to dispose of the dsOutputWindow instances in OnTermination().

And yes, please add such features to the NT8 Requested Features List.

[Yandychang]

suggestion

I dont know if this have been suggested yet. But for ninjaScript I think it would be amazing if NT could make it easy to scan the market for certain conditions. Instruments that meet the criteria save them in database. As another set of condition are met, the instrument is taken off the database. this, allows the investor not have to worry about scanning daily or weekly for the market and manually have to add or delete the instruments.
Also being able to save to database ( Mostly Excel) historical data so that statistical studies can be conducted. this would allow the investor to get all information needed to make high quality research with NT. I did some research on the internet, and found out that someone already did this, so it is possible, but it takes a few steps that only a programmer can do.

[NinjaTrader_Brandon]

Hello Yandychang,

Thanks for your post.

You may want to check out the Market Analyzer. You can add a list of instruments here and set up filters for conditions so that only instruments that meet these condition would display in the list.

Below I have provided a link to a recording of our Market Analyzer training event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSp9NODAEk&list=PL4D56536A44DD7105&index=13

[jeronymite]

Thanks

I've been using this dsOutputWindow with my Indicators and Strategies:

http://www.volumedigger.com/NinjaTrader/Miscellaneous/dsOutputWindow.aspx

It features the ability to set a color for each Print() statement. For example:
Print("message", Color.Green);

Also, you can create multiple instances of the output window. Just follow the example and remember to add the code to dispose of the dsOutputWindow instances in OnTermination().

And yes, please add such features to the NT8 Requested Features List.

Thanks, Buckstar. What I didn't say in my original post is that I have already written my own code to do exactly what I was asking for: I can create on-demand any number of RichTextBox output windows and use any rtf features, including graphics. I can output to multiple windows at the same time, even a mixture of TextBox and RichTextBox windows with the TextBox windows receiving either the raw rtf output or "stripped-back-to-plain-text" output.

[BBilotta]

No timeline and no accountability

In case many of you haven't noticed, many loyal NT users are migrating away from NT due to this very issue. Like many have posted, we don't need an exact date, or a commitment, but we do need some idea of where we're at. NT7 is just too slow and cumbersome. There are now better products available. Those who depend on their platform for a living are now migrating away from NT because we can't get an answer on when, if ever, the new release might be available.

I'm not knocking NT7. It has been great, but its time has passed.

It must be nice to have no pressure, no deadlines, no time constraints and no accountability to your customers with respect to providing any information whatsoever.

Personally, i'd probably wait a considerable amount of time if i just had some idea of when. As it is, I've been waiting for a year now and NT8 isn't even in beta, which means a truly consumer-ready product, including a significant amount of 3rd party add-ons is likely yet a long long way off. i'm now trialing other software and will likely switch before NT 8 is ever released, probably long before a release, which is unfortunate, but enough is enough.

I really wanted to be able to hold out for NT 8. But it just doesn't look like that's possible given the fact that we can't get any idea as to where its at. No one, including me, wants the product released before its ready. And i'm not suggesting they put a hard date on it at all. But to announce the product is in production, tell us it will be out before 2013 EOY, then tell us its not coming out and not provide any more information is just frustrating.

Even last year, in March I believe, when Ray said all he could commit to was "by the end of the year", i was fine with that, hell i was thrilled with it. Now we can't even get that. Tell us what you expect. Tell us something. Tell us 'baring any unforeseen....... we expect a beta in "x" months".

[Alexpl]

still waiting

I am absolutely agree with previous post of BBilotta. I waiting for NT8 during last 2 years. Last year I was looking for any information almost every day and read all posts about NT8 with real curiosity. 2013 ended and ... nothing. It will be much better if you publish current beta, even if it's not stable.
Frustration is killing. Every day of waiting reduces loyalty. Just know that, we like NT and still waiting for release.

[sledge]

It will be much better if you publish current beta, even if it's not stable.

Ummm, negative reviews would do so much good for the product.

There would be too many support complaints to deal with.

It would rank up there with the ZenFire debacle this past Dec 2013/Jan 2014.

[Alexpl]

Early beta will help prepare for release, make changes to the code, not just wait for years.
Many traders need to make changes in their strategies befor start using NT8. It'll take some time.

[jeronymite]

Want vs need

"sledge" is right. Any release, even beta, that is too buggy will inevitably be counter-productive. It will generate "bad press" and create too much distraction for NinjaTrader. Recent posts in this thread are really describing a desire for an alpha release, not beta ... and an alpha release should most definitely not be made available!

Software development is both art and science ... and in this case, business and partnership. Raymond Deux's comments in the December 2013 BMT webinar are enlightening. One comment in particular spoke of the need for NinjaTrader to be aware of the effect of its development decisions on the relationships it has with its business partners; in this instance, the brokers and data providers. For NinjaTrader, the tightrope it is walking requires acute business acumen ... and nerves of steel! Any software company can throw software to the public and use "production quality" releases as glorified beta testing with a global audience. But that is not what we, as traders, nor NinjaTraders partners and its third-party developers, really want ... and more importantly, it is definitely not what we need.

It is generally acknowledged that NT7 has "less-than-optimal-features" that many would like to see remedied in NT8, and that various other issues over recent months have caused NinjaTrader significant public grief. So, it behoves Ray and the team to exercise great calm under pressure and to bring out a solid beta that will, within a clearly defined test period, lead to a production release that will delight all stakeholders.

Now, having said all that, I do believe that the information flow to stakeholders could be improved. As a software developer, I know that it is axiomatic that one should never promise anything that one is not guaranteed (guaranteed!) to deliver. At this stage of development though, I suspect NinjaTrader could provide a fairly detailed list of confirmed features and changes that would satisfy the stakeholders, even with the caveat of "subject to change". We have already seen that in some measure through the BMT webinars (thanks, Ray!). And although a timetable for releases may be more sensitive, some degree of estimate, again "subject to change" as needs be, would be beneficial.

So, in this grand balancing act of waiting for Santa to come, I reiterate the need for patience (as a virtue) for us and other stakeholders; and for NinjaTrader, I urge a well-deliberated information flow that can douse the fires of fear, uncertainty and doubt ... aka FUD.

And all that, for what it's worth, IMHO.