Delta Buy/Sell Volume

[FulcrumTrader]

Hey, thanks for the information. I followed the link you provided, but noticed this is not a patent application but is instead a patent that has already been granted (July 21, 2009.)

While a patent can always be challenged, the U.S. Patent Office is loathe to reject or withdraw a patent they have already approved and thus it will take some very expensive lawyering and some obvious and incontrovertible proof that such method was basically already in use prior to their application for said patent and is thus not unique and therefore does not qualify for a patent. I do hope Linnsoft and whoever else has such proof prevails in this matter but I certainly won't be holding my breath for that unlikely result.

I won't be surprised if NinjaTrader soon removes the GomiCD indicator from this forum.

Correct....the patent has already been approved and is currently in place. I am conducting some investigation into this matter so hopefully I will have more information latter today or maybe tomorrow. I did speak with Alvin Tanpoco from TT back in the day when he first talked about the CVD for XStudy (just as XStudy was to be released....2005 maybe?) so I will be looking into the matter today.

Actually at this point the GomCD is just fine to use.....if Ninjatrader provided the indicator as their own volume tracking tool then NT would have a potential problem. Also to note, all other charting providers who offer CD tools to this day continue to allow CD study usage within their charting. There is some additional information I am sure will follow related to this news in the days ahead.

Whatever I know I will pass on so the Delta based traders of the world can all keep running their fusion reactors!

[tiger123]

While a patent can always be challenged, the U.S. Patent Office is loathe to reject or withdraw a patent they have already approved and thus it will take some very expensive lawyering and some obvious and incontrovertible proof that such method was basically already in use prior to their application for said patent and is thus not unique and therefore does not qualify for a patent.

I checked TT has been granted 35 patents so far this year. Here in Silicon Valley tech companies, many file patent applications just for self protection in order not to be suited, not intended to attack others. I hope that is the case. Also, I do believe there is prior art of Delta Volume prior to TT's 2006 application for patent. For example, it was described exactly in the system manual of www.etfbull.com, thus the patent itself will be very difficult upheld in court.

[dosh1965]

I checked TT has been granted 35 patents so far this year. Here in Silicon Valley tech companies, many file patent applications just for self protection in order not to be suited, not intended to attack others. I hope that is the case. Also, I do believe there is prior art of Delta Volume prior to TT's 2006 application for patent. For example, it was described exactly in the system manual of www.etfbull.com, thus the patent itself will be very difficult upheld in court.

The patent office has a long history of granting patents without doing the necessary legwork to discover prior art and then leave it to the courts to render judgement/settle. Volume Delta is not a concern for NT but is a big selling point for I/RT (linnsoft) and they may not have the lawyering gunpower to withstand costly patent litigation. One would hope that nobody ends up paying TT for patent licensing, effectively establishing a "proof" that the patent, as trivial as it may be, is valid. btw patents are also obtained for publicity stunt purposes.

[Fulcrum]

The patent office has a long history of granting patents without doing the necessary legwork to discover prior art and then leave it to the courts to render judgement/settle. Volume Delta is not a concern for NT but is a big selling point for I/RT (linnsoft) and they may not have the lawyering gunpower to withstand costly patent litigation. One would hope that nobody ends up paying TT for patent licensing, effectively establishing a "proof" that the patent, as trivial as it may be, is valid. btw patents are also obtained for publicity stunt purposes.

Also, it is my understanding that MD had PENDING patents for Cumulative Delta plotting PRIOR to TT even applying for their patent. This was from work MD had done PRIOR to Alvin Tanpoco's work with CVD for TT's XStudy.

It appears to me there is not any real concern at this point from NON TT providers of CD tools.....so far status is as before....nothing has changed to this point.

[NickA]

I checked TT has been granted 35 patents so far this year. Here in Silicon Valley tech companies, many file patent applications just for self protection in order not to be suited, not intended to attack others. I hope that is the case. Also, I do believe there is prior art of Delta Volume prior to TT's 2006 application for patent. For example, it was described exactly in the system manual of www.etfbull.com, thus the patent itself will be very difficult upheld in court.

TT Have aggressively pursued other patents (like static DOM's).

One would hope that nobody ends up paying TT for patent licensing, effectively establishing a "proof" that the patent, as trivial as it may be, is valid.

Sadly many did (including NT) for the DOM. Mind you there where a couple of high profile court cases.

[timmyb]

When my delta calculation get above 100,000 the right side no longer tracks in between values, It only tracks like 100k then 101k, is there any way to get that to show like 101,345 . Is it the way i am recording ect??

[Dan T. Man]

I'm used to market profile and volume studies. Are there any articles, books, research I can find for using CD? Don't need a sales pitch please, just suggestions.

Thanks in advance
DTM

[FulcrumTrader]

I'm used to market profile and volume studies. Are there any articles, books, research I can find for using CD? Don't need a sales pitch please, just suggestions.

Thanks in advance
DTM

Best way to learn how to use Cumulative Delta imo is to get yourself set-up with the GomCD study and then watch the Cumulative Delta realtime. As you spend the screen time needed, pay attention to the price/CD relationship in range extension, price rotations sideways action, hard trends, price retesting new highs or lows, etc.

Over a few weeks you will start to notice some repeating patterns that can be used as very robust trade entry criteria.....so just dig in and start the learning process realtime.

[dosh1965]

Best way to learn how to use Cumulative Delta imo is to get yourself set-up with the GomCD study and then watch the Cumulative Delta realtime. As you spend the screen time needed, pay attention to the price/CD relationship in range extension, price rotations sideways action, hard trends, price retesting new highs or lows, etc.

Over a few weeks you will start to notice some repeating patterns that can be used as very robust trade entry criteria.....so just dig in and start the learning process realtime.

Word of caution - watch out for trend days, today is a good example. You'd be shorting over and over again on what seems like order flow transition (OFT) with price never retracing enough to allow you to rotate positions on a relentless range extension (above previous highs in this case).

[FulcrumTrader]

Word of caution - watch out for trend days, today is a good example. You'd be shorting over and over again on what seems like order flow transition (OFT) with price never retracing enough to allow you to rotate positions on a relentless range extension (above previous highs in this case).

Actually today there were very few scalp SHORT signals, so you should not have been shorting over and over again....not at all. For the two proper scalp SHORT signals there was today, it was really nothing too special for trade management imo.

http://www.charthub.com/images/2009/08/21/FulcrumTrader__ES_SEP09_3.png

The first scalp trade you should have covered at b/e after the trade already went 6 ticks in your intended direction prior to a counter order flow transition. Worst case scenario, if you were slow to react initially on the return of price to b/e, would be to take a 6 tick stop out after the CD trailing stop was hit.

http://www.charthub.com/images/2009/08/21/FulcrumTrader__ES_SEP09_4.png

The second scalp short signal I saw today hit a two point target, so of course any return of price back to b/e should be hitting a b/e stop (set after profit target price starts to be traded). Even better, would be to lock in 1 point as CD trailing stop is hit.


Order flow transitions are not all suppose to be traded....only the ones that make up a proper Delta Divergence scalp counter or trend following signal.

[marketmasher]

Actually today there were very few scalp SHORT signals, so you should not have been shorting over and over again....not at all. For the two proper scalp SHORT signals there was today, it was really nothing too special for trade management imo.

http://www.charthub.com/images/2009/08/21/FulcrumTrader__ES_SEP09_3.png

The first scalp trade you should have covered at b/e after the trade already went 6 ticks in your intended direction prior to a counter order flow transition. Worst case scenario, if you were slow to react initially on the return of price to b/e, would be to take a 6 tick stop out after the CD trailing stop was hit.

http://www.charthub.com/images/2009/08/21/FulcrumTrader__ES_SEP09_4.png

The second scalp short signal I saw today hit a two point target, so of course any return of price back to b/e should be hitting a b/e stop (set after profit target price starts to be traded). Even better, would be to lock in 1 point as CD trailing stop is hit.


Order flow transitions are not all suppose to be traded....only the ones that make up a proper Delta Divergence scalp counter or trend following signal.

You had Gomifromparis' indicator converted to IRT? What advantages does it have? Do they charge for it?

[FulcrumTrader]

You had Gomifromparis' indicator converted to IRT? What advantages does it have? Do they charge for it?

No.....I have been an Investor RT user from the past as they had the "Volume Breakdown" tool many years ago for plotting Cumulative Delta. What Gomi and many of us are hoping for in the new NT7 release ahead, is to have all theses good CD volume tools within the Ninjatrader charting platform WITH historical Zenfire feed capabilities (at least 10 trade days of look back capability at a minimum).

We REALLY REALLY want to be able to use the power of the Cumulative Delta volume tools withing one package......DOM & Charts!

[velocity]

I AGREE! It would be awesome to include such a power tool as a "default indicator". Many of the other charting packages provide this.

My vote is a STRONG YES for cumulative and net delta.

[dosh1965]

Actually today there were very few scalp SHORT signals, so you should not have been shorting over and over again....not at all. For the two proper scalp SHORT signals there was today, it was really nothing too special for trade management imo.

http://www.charthub.com/images/2009/08/21/FulcrumTrader__ES_SEP09_3.png

The first scalp trade you should have covered at b/e after the trade already went 6 ticks in your intended direction prior to a counter order flow transition. Worst case scenario, if you were slow to react initially on the return of price to b/e, would be to take a 6 tick stop out after the CD trailing stop was hit.

http://www.charthub.com/images/2009/08/21/FulcrumTrader__ES_SEP09_4.png

The second scalp short signal I saw today hit a two point target, so of course any return of price back to b/e should be hitting a b/e stop (set after profit target price starts to be traded). Even better, would be to lock in 1 point as CD trailing stop is hit.


Order flow transitions are not all suppose to be traded....only the ones that make up a proper Delta Divergence scalp counter or trend following signal.

Yes, accepting these signals for scalp trades and exiting at BE or 1/2 pt was doable, but not as position trades as far as I can tell. Counter-trend scalping on a day like Friday is too much hard (and hazardous) work for too little compared with just riding the trend imo.

[davewolfs]

Sorry if this a dumb question, but could someone please tell me how/when the delta candle bars trend up or down. What exactly does this represent? I understand that each bar represents the net delta of the bid/ask of the bar but how does this translate to an indicator bar moving up or down?