NinjaTrader + Rithmic = Not updating positions

[Rudmax]

Using NinjaTrader 8.1.3.1 with RTrader (Rithmic) with a bunch of accounts, there are times when the account position is not updated, leading one to believe that there is an open position, while RTrader shows that there is not, so when closing the position in NinjaTrader a new position is opened erroneously.

Example:

2024-07-01 05:10:10:037|1|32|Order='1571534587/APEX-84777-39' Name='92665-008B53A2' New state='Filled' Instrument='NQ 09-24' Action='Sell' Limit price=0 Stop price=19974.5 Quantity=1 Type='Stop Market' Time in force=DAY Oco='' Filled=1 Fill price=19974.25 Error='No error' Native error=''
2024-07-01 05:10:10:039|1|8|Execution='1078075|1571534587|1571534587' Instrument='NQ 09-24' Account='APEX-84777-39' Exchange=Globex Price=19974.25 Quantity=1 Market position=Short Operation=Operation_Add Order='1571534587' Time='07/01/2024 05:10:11'

In this case, the position was not updated, so the Flatten Everything was invoked:

2024-07-01 05:10:22:028|1|4|Terminating any NinjaScript strategies invoked by Flatten Everything command

Order was sent:

2024-07-01 05:10:22:072|1|32|Order='e673c1da460d447b8378689fe9732299/APEX-84777-39' Name='Zerar' New state='Submitted' Instrument='NQ 09-24' Action='Sell' Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type='Mercado' Time in force=DAY Oco='' Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error='No error' Native error=''

Then the position was updated to the latest status, which should have been updated earlier:

2024-07-01 05:10:22:200|1|64|Instrument='NQ 09-24' Account='APEX-84777-39' Average price=19971.5 Quantity=1 Market position=Flat Operation=Remove​

And a new position is opened 1ms after the last position Flat update:

2024-07-01 05:10:22:201|1|64|Instrument='NQ 09-24' Account='APEX-84777-39' Average price=19972.25 Quantity=1 Market position=Short Operation=Operation_Add

I understand this is very serious, is it a problem with NinjaTrader or Rithmic?

I'm happy to send you the logs.

[TraderTate]

Are you using a Trade Copier? I was when an identical occurrence happened to me. Ninja shows a trade/order/position, but Rithmic does not. (Had an Order, stop loss hit, but Ninja/ or the Copier, opened a Reverse Order without any Stops. Rithmic doesn't show the position.)

[Rudmax]

Yes, it seems that they are having trouble updating positions in NinjaTrader that are being updated in Rithmic when there are many accounts connected at the same time, what remains to be seen is whether this problem is on the Rithmic (RTrader) side or the NinjaTrader side. I don't think it's the copier because it depends on NinjaTrader to display the current status of positions.

[TraderTate]

In your instance, did you close the Erroneous trade? When you did close it - did NT register a New Trade with Rithmic or did it register the Erroneous trade?

[Rudmax]

When closing the position that is being erroneously displayed in NinjaTrader, a new position is opened in reverse.

2024-07-01 05:10:22:028|1|4|Terminating any NinjaScript strategies invoked by Flatten Everything command

First it show that it was flat:

2024-07-01 05:10:22:200|1|64|Instrument='NQ 09-24' Account='APEX-84777-39' Average price=19971.5 Quantity=1 Market position=Flat Operation=Remove​

Then open 1ms after a new position:

2024-07-01 05:10:22:201|1|64|Instrument='NQ 09-24' Account='APEX-84777-39' Average price=19972.25 Quantity=1 Market position=Short Operation=Operation_Add

We always have to keep an eye on RTrader Pro because that's where the correct position status is displayed. When this happens, I do a broker reconnect from the NinjaTrader Connection menu to update the account positions correctly.

[NinjaTrader_Erick]

Hello Rudmax,

Thank you for reaching out.

Critical - If your inquiry involves live or evaluation orders, please always reach out to your broker's/account providers Orders Desk immediately to confirm and manage your live orders and positions.

If your trade(s) are with NinjaTrader Brokerage, you can contact NinjaTrader Brokerage Order Desk by emailing [email protected]

If you are ever not able to manage your positions from NT8 desktop, you would have to contact Apex immediately, or use their other compatible software to login and manage your account.

For Apex-Rithmic accounts:
You can review and manage open orders by using RTrader Pro

• Download R|Trader Pro
  • http://yyy3.rithmic.com/?page_id=16
• Open R|Trader Pro and enter your credentials into the 'Orders' user ID and password fields and the 'Market Data' user ID and password field
• Then open a Trader Dashboard to see your account

For NT8: *Please note that if you are using any 3rd party trading software such as a Trade Copier or automated strategy, we would not be able to troubleshoot order issues as they would be better reviewed by the developers of the software.

We always advise being on the latest version of both NT8 and the trade copier to mitigate issues. Also, we have been informed that Trade Copier windows should be closed when no in use/when shutting down and saving the workspace.

NT8 actually relies on the broker sending the postion and instrument updates to the platform.



If you are experiencing order issues on NT8 desktop and would like us to review:

Please answer all of the following:

• What Order ID was assigned to this order? You can check in the Executions or Orders tab of the Control Center.
• Do you receive an error on screen? Are there errors on the Log tab of the Control Center? If so, what do these errors report?

Since you are reporting live order issues, we need to see these files before proceeding to assist.

Please send in your log and trace files so that we may look into what may be occurring.

You can do this by going to the Control Center-> Help-> Email Support

Ensuring 'Log and Trace Files' is checked will include these files. This is checked by default.

If you could also provide a screenshot of what you are seeing, that would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance, we look forward to helping resolve this issue for you.

[Rudmax]

For NT8: *Please note that if you are using any 3rd party trading software such as a Trade Copier or automated strategy, we would not be able to troubleshoot order issues as they would be better reviewed by the developers of the software.

In this case, the orders are being sent and executed correctly, what NinjaTrader is not doing is updating the account position, which we agree is not related to any third-party add-on. Right?

We always advise being on the latest version of both NT8 and the trade copier to mitigate issues. Also, we have been informed that Trade Copier windows should be closed when no in use/when shutting down and saving the workspace.

This is also happening in the latest version of NinjaTrader 8.1.3.1.

What Order ID was assigned to this order? You can check in the Executions or Orders tab of the Control Center.

2024-07-01 05:10:10:037|1|32|Order='1571534587/APEX-84777-39' Name='92665-008B53A2' New state='Filled' Instrument='NQ 09-24' Action='Sell' Limit price=0 Stop price=19974.5 Quantity=1 Type='Stop Market' Time in force=DAY Oco='' Filled=1 Fill price=19974.25 Error='No error' Native error=''
2024-07-01 05:10:10:039|1|8|Execution='1078075|1571534587|157 1534587' Instrument='NQ 09-24' Account='APEX-84777-39' Exchange=Globex Price=19974.25 Quantity=1 Market position=Short Operation=Operation_Add Order='1571534587' Time='07/01/2024 05:10:11'​

Do you receive an error on screen? Are there errors on the Log tab of the Control Center? If so, what do these errors report?

No error, what is happening is that the position is not being updated in NinjaTrader.

Since you are reporting live order issues, we need to see these files before proceeding to assist.

Logs sent to Case 0448442

I look forward to hearing from you, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

[affilife]

Do we have an update on this? This seems to be a widespread issue so updates on this thread is highly appreciated.

[Rudmax]

I have been in touch with the NinjaTrader support team regarding this issue and they have kindly provided me with the following response:

---

---

Unfortunately, we're still not quite there yet. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[Rogue_Two]

I am having this issue when using both Apex Trade Copier as well as Replikanto Trade Copier with Apex Rithmic as my plan.

The issue started occurring around the time of the 8.1.3.1 release but reverting to older versions did not remedy the issue so I am suspecting the problem has something to do with Rithmic. I have asked other traders on a Tradovate plan and they seem to have no issues with their positions updating with trade copiers.

It has been weeks now and this issue has still not been resolved and was wondering if anyone has an update?

Additionally, I started getting these log entries time to time after the positions update issue arose.

[Rogue_Two]

Rudmax,

This issue started on 7-1-2024 for me as well. I am using Replikanto with multiple accounts and before July 1st everything was working perfectly.

Have you figured anything out or gotten any answers?

[Rogue_Two]

For those using Replikanto:

Do you all still get the positions update issue when using the ATM Copy feature of Replikanto?

Up until now I have not been using that function and will try it tomorrow to see if that remedies anything for now.

[benghabili]

I am on TopStep Rithmic and have the same issue. The support team is not responding to enquiries related to the issue anymore. That is not acceptable to have that many people in trouble and you have a problematic platform that cause people to loose money.

[Rogue_Two]

I am on TopStep Rithmic and have the same issue. The support team is not responding to enquiries related to the issue anymore. That is not acceptable to have that many people in trouble and you have a problematic platform that cause people to loose money.

What copier are you using?

[Rogue_Two]

For those using Replikanto:

Do you all still get the positions update issue when using the ATM Copy feature of Replikanto?

Up until now I have not been using that function and will try it tomorrow to see if that remedies anything for now.

Unfortunately this did not solve anything. Even when an account being copied to has an ATM on it, the position is not being updated at times when either profit or target is hit.