Autotrading through NT, Actual users: Your experince? Does it work well?

[ju1234]

Users of NT: please tell me about "automated trading through NT" does it work well, what are the glitches. Are there frequent problems? Whatever good or bad you can say about it.

I have been working with NT now for over two weeks with the simulation and have mixed feelings about it. All this time i am spending learning it, my eventual goal of being able to use it for auto mated trading, seems all that time may go to waste. So far in simulation I only find mismatched positions at the end of day everyday.

Thanks for your input.

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,

I will let others voice there opinions on NT automation.

However regarding the mismatched positions please review this link to understand why it is this way and how to fix it:

http://www.ninjatrader-support2.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4033

[ju1234]

Thanks Ben. I have already read that link. I don't understand why one would have to keep fixing those mismatches all day. For example: I am running ES chart right now. Looking at the positions on the chart with the arrows there was first a short, then close and 1 long and then two more longs with a total of 3 longs at this time. The Control center however shows me long 13. I closed out all open positions yesterday when i shut the computer off. This morning however i have opened and closed the chart couple of times, once on purpose, once it closed accidentally. Each time i had to reapply the strategy and reset the parameters on it. So I really don't see reason why this big mismatch should be there. Some better solution needs to be worked by NT for this problem.

[ju1234]

Right clicking on a row in Positions, there is choice of close positions. But there is no choice of closing part of the position to fix the mismatch. In the "executions or orders" screen I can right click a row and "remove" a particular row to remove a certain trade. But then I got a big explosion message saying You need this to properly match the closing trade etc.

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,

If you do not like this feature turn it off: Tools>Options>Strategies tab>NinjaScript tab, check Wait until flat before executing live and the strategy will not place an order until the strategy is falt. Also, close out your account positions you have so your account position is also falt.

[cunparis]

For now I have 1 strategy that I want to run on 2 different markets. It sounds like I shouldn't have this problem as long as I start the strategy before the session.

[mrlogik]

ju,

I'm not sure why you are having a strategy problem.

In terms of automation, I now have 0 problems.

I think I started working on automation with NT 6.5.1004 with MBTrading as my broker. There were a few bugs in the early development on NT and MB communication that I found and reported, which were solved by NT updates and releases. Any errors you are seeing is either a programming error, race condition, misunderstanding, case not handled, or, NT platform problem. Either way always communicate your issues here on the forum for help. If you want me to take a look you can PM me to further discuss.

Ultimately, there are a few things you have to worry about when automating a system with ANY platform. The severity of these depend on whether your home or not during your automated trading.

What happens when?
1. The power goes out.
-- I run my strategy on a laptop with the top closed. My modem and router are on battery backup. I get about 5 hours of battery life. Before the battery dies (checked via USB) I will execute a flatten all command to close any positions I'm in (just in case). Additionally, and email is sent to my cell phone to let me know.
2. You lose your broker connection.
-- If I'm in a trade when this occurs, I will send an email to my phone and handle it myself.
3. You lose your internet connection.
-- You're limited in this. I have distinct ISP lines coming into my house, in a redundant router. If one goes down, the other picks up. If both go down I don't have anything setup, but I'm sure you can have an analog phone modem call you on your cell.

Ahhh. The cost of 100% automation.

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello cunparis,


The two different markets will not interfer with each other. However you still want to follow the links and suggestions below to be sure you do not have a mismatch of strategy vs. account postion.

mrlogik/ju1234 - Great post mrlogik, thanks! Also this link may help also:

http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/HelpGuideV6/RisksOfElectronicTradingWithNinjaTrader.html

[TAJTrades]

My automated trading is limited to the Sim Account trading only ES and NQ mini's. I also trade my live account the old school way. I never hold a position over night so I don't have to worry about some of these issues presented on this forum. I have had the same strategy running for a few months making 300+ trades without any issues (well done NT folks) until the other day. I believe I got caught in a race condition when a flurry of trades came through. My stop order was hit and within 2 or 3 ticks I had an entry order fire off. I believe it is unrealistic to expect fill and cancel confirmations to be handled in a matter of nano seconds. Had it been a live account, well no problem, just pick up the phone and call the broker.

FWIW, the chart that has the Strategy on it is a ES 500 Volume Chart. Stuff happens very fast on that chart.

Bottom line: I have been very please with NT so far in terms of auto trading. Looking forward to going live with it soon if no other issues pop up.

[ctrlbrk]

ju1234,

I run 4 different strategies daily. After thorough testing, I feel confident in them from a 'technical glitch' perspective and most of the time I am not even near the computer to rescue a strategy if something were to fail, because I believe in it enough to know it will not fail.

Any issue that has come from auto trading a strategy usually was bad programming. Then it was fixed on my part and I moved on. Such as, a strategy rarely but occasionally trying to go short while another strategy was long in the same position. That caused a major problem. The solution was better programming, and now my strategies talk to each other in real time to prevent that from happening.

Sure Windows can lock up, power out, internet down, etc. But those things can happen during live discretionary trading too. That is why I always set a stop with every trade, just in case.

Good hunting!

[ctrlbrk]

I should also add that I do have my strategy send me text messages to my cell so I have an idea as to what it is doing. Just one when it enters, one when it exists, and one when daily limits are reached.

This gives me additional confidence because even 'remotely' I know what it is doing.

[heech]

2. You lose your broker connection.
-- If I'm in a trade when this occurs, I will send an email to my phone and handle it myself.

Hi there,

This is the one scenario I'm worried about right now, and am not sure how to handle. How are you detecting a lost connection, so that you can be alerted to the situation?

On the question from the original user... I was going to post a separate "thank you" post, but I'll just quickly summarize here.

I came in mildly skeptical about the platform, assuming there would be numerous bugs I had to work around. I'm a little jaded from past experiences on automated platform, and it's usually a matter of finding *what* the bugs are (and working around them)... rather than just assuming everything works correctly.

On my last platform, I literally had to sit in front of the "automated" trading tool all day... ready to fix rejected orders, or place orders needed to match the strategy position.

So far, 2 weeks into my automated trading career, after many sleepless nights... I have to say, I'm impressed. Things are working well. Many of the problems have turned out to be operator error because of the complications with the system, but actual bugs have been fee. There *are* numerous "undocumented" (or poorly documented) behavior in the system that you have to work through... but once you understand what the platform is really doing, you'll be able to work with it.

The best endorsement I can possibly give for NinjaTrader: I now feel safe going to the bathroom during the trading day. I don't quite feel safe yet sleeping in (I haven't had a single trading day start "correctly" yet)... but hopefully I'll figure out what's causing that behavior.

[heech]

What happens when?
1. The power goes out.
...
3. You lose your internet connection.

By the way, I started off with a high-power laptop that I was planning to leave going all day.. next to my off-the-shelf DSL modem sitting at home. But I ultimately decided I can't stand the idea of the landscaping guy accidentally cutting the phone line... or hell, what if there's an earthquake and my connection to the broker is lost for a few days..

So, I'm now going with a hosted Windows server. It costs me about ~$170 month, which isn't a lot of money in the big picture. For that money, I get a Windows Server platform sitting in a high-security data center, behind industrial grade routers probably redundant beyond belief, all managed 24/7 by a professional IT team.

My broker is TDAmeritrade, and their servers are hosted by ThePlanet. I considered going with ThePlanet, because then my system would be (most likely) in the same building in Dallas with the TDAmeritrade servers. In other words, my connection isn't going down unless *theirs* go down. I ultimately decided to go with SoftLayer, which is apparently just next door (5ms ping time).

Regardless, I sleep better at night.

[ctrlbrk]

This is the one scenario I'm worried about right now, and am not sure how to handle. How are you detecting a lost connection, so that you can be alerted to the situation?

Good catch, I'd like to know the answer to this one as well.

[ctrlbrk]

heech,

The hosted server is a unique idea.

Regarding the start up problems, what kind of issues are you having that you have to manually correct each morning? Just curious.