New Order Handling and Modification Approach

[bhong]

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Ray, I like the last suggestion. I chose NT because of its one click option. I guess I'm a klutz. I also tend to be all-in or all-out so I personally don't need the multiple targets feature. In this time of choppy markets, there haven't been as many oppurtunities to scale out and I prefer to hit Scale out when I choose to partially exit. If you do go to mult targets with drag and drop,I do like your last suggestion of highlighting target one and still preserving the scroll wheel feature.
Seems like that might be a workable compromise.
Thanks for soliciting our input.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

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Bhong,

After sleeping on it, that is what I am thinking at this point. I personally can't stand the drag and drop approach myself. Here is what I am thinking -

- Ctrl Key + Scroll Wheel changes the highlighted active order if there is more than one visible on the screen.
- Scroll wheel changes visible price (like it does now)
- Single click modifies any order price
- Left click places limit orders
- Ctrl Key + Left click places stop market orders
- Shift Key + Left click places stop limit orders
- Any of the above combination + the Alt key places an additional order (for scaling in at multiple price levels)

Any comments on this thinking?

Ray

[Granville]

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Ray, I really appreciate you taking time and effort through user feedbackto improve NT.

As for my input, I like NT for its user friendlienss combined with the ease of doing whatever I want. I run NT on a portable computer standing to the right of my charting screens, so to reach the keyboard I need to stretch (and finding the right keys on a portable is not so easy...). I use both lmt and stplmt orders, and I adjust targets from time to timeand I wouldn't like having to use the keys for this. Being able to run NT with mouse only, is thus a value in itself. For me, I don't think drag and drop would cause a problem, but some do, so I don't know what's the best solution for everybody.

Granville

[Merv]

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Is there a way to have both the one-click move capability on the initial green colored targets that the program places upon initial entry? This single-click would still be in the "price" column" as it is now. The scale-in positions are added by clicking in either the BUY or SELL columns as now however each click would add an additional scale-in quantity and these order lines would all be cyan colored as now. The difference would be if you want to move a scale-in order then drag and drop this cyan colored scale-in order as you previously described in your proposal. You could make a right click on the scale-in quantity windowreduce the quantity by cancelling the most recent (furthest back in the que) scale-in order at that pice level. Say you wanted to scale in at the current level that an existing green target order existed. Just click in the BUY or SELL column and 1 scale-in quantity order would also be placed at that price level. You could even color the total order size at that level to cyanon the background colorto indicate that both a target and a scale-in order existed at that level. A drag and drop in the BUY or SELL column would move the scale-in order and a single click in the price column would move the target order. While those that use scale-in and out a lot will have to become familiar with differences, those that just use stops and targets willexperience no change in the interface. Adding orders to the existing targets would do as you described ,add additional orders to the que, preserving theinitialtarget place in the que Yet the cyan backgroud color on the total order quantity at that price level would indicate the presence of both target and scale-in orders. that would be moved as described above.

Is this possible? If so, I have a possible suggestion about what to do on initial entry orders.

Merv

[AK Trader]

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Hi Ray,

Love the program. I have noticed over the last several weeks that my connection with PATS dies 2-3 times per day. Is there anything being done to make this connection more stable in V5? I have heard this is the case with other users as well. Reliability is critical...especially for automated trading.

Thanks much.

Frank

[rmmsmh]

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Ray,

It would be nice to make these changes an option for those who would use them and keep the old system available to those whodon't make changes once the position is put on. I also think the drag and drop can be difficultand error prone. You would almost need a confirmation window for that which defeats the whole idea of one click entry. The fewer key strokesthe better.Also are these changes only for the DOMentry or would they also apply to the BEW as well. Thanks.



Bob

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

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Merv wrote:

Is there a way to have both the one-click move capability on the initial green colored targets that the program places upon initial entry? This single-click would still be in the "price" column" as it is now. The scale-in positions are added by clicking in either the BUY or SELL columns as now however each click would add an additional scale-in quantity and these order lines would all be cyan colored as now. The difference would be if you want to move a scale-in order then drag and drop this cyan colored scale-in order as you previously described in your proposal. You could make a right click on the scale-in quantity windowreduce the quantity by cancelling the most recent (furthest back in the que) scale-in order at that pice level. Say you wanted to scale in at the current level that an existing green target order existed. Just click in the BUY or SELL column and 1 scale-in quantity order would also be placed at that price level. You could even color the total order size at that level to cyanon the background colorto indicate that both a target and a scale-in order existed at that level. A drag and drop in the BUY or SELL column would move the scale-in order and a single click in the price column would move the target order. While those that use scale-in and out a lot will have to become familiar with differences, those that just use stops and targets willexperience no change in the interface. Adding orders to the existing targets would do as you described ,add additional orders to the que, preserving theinitialtarget place in the que Yet the cyan backgroud color on the total order quantity at that price level would indicate the presence of both target and scale-in orders. that would be moved as described above.

Is this possible? If so, I have a possible suggestion about what to do on initial entry orders.

Merv

Hi Merv,

WhatI want to stay away from is multiple mouse clicking conventions for accomplishing similar tasks. Thus I am leaning towards the single click approach but have it accompanied by a highlighted order. So if you have a target1, there would be a yellow outline around it. This would indicate that you could modify it. If you wanted to modify target 2, you would need to highlight it by scrolling the mouse wheel.

Ray

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

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AK Trader wrote:

Hi Ray,

Love the program. I have noticed over the last several weeks that my connection with PATS dies 2-3 times per day. Is there anything being done to make this connection more stable in V5? I have heard this is the case with other users as well. Reliability is critical...especially for automated trading.

Thanks much.

Frank

NT disconnects when the Patsystems API tells it that it is disconnected. This is not an NT specific function. Variables that affect solid connection are -

a) Broker servers
b) Broker connectivity to the internet
c) Your internet connection

Ray

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

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rmmsmh wrote:

Ray,

It would be nice to make these changes an option for those who would use them and keep the old system available to those whodon't make changes once the position is put on. I also think the drag and drop can be difficultand error prone. You would almost need a confirmation window for that which defeats the whole idea of one click entry. The fewer key strokesthe better.Also are these changes only for the DOMentry or would they also apply to the BEW as well. Thanks.



Bob

Order handling applies to NT internally, User Interface just the DOM although the BEW is getting a complete overhaul and will likely be a horizontal window instead of a vertical one.

Ray

[gdargento]

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Ray,

I've been using the program for a few months now and really like it. Thanks.

A feature I'd really love to see is a "Limit-on-Close" and a "Market-on-Close" option. This should of course be configurable for time frame (i.e. 1 min bars; 3 min bars...).

Keep upthe good work!



Gary Dargento

[aspTrader]

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Ray,

A feature that would be EXTREMELY useful for CTAs doing some size and a need for the entire size to be "in" once the 1st contract is hit is this...

A "Chase If Partial Fill" trigger. Not "Chase If Touched".

If one of our customers is "in" then ALL of them need to be "in". So, a "Chase If Partial Fill" Checkbox would be extremely useful. All the rest of the Chase logic would be the same. It's just that the "event trigger" initiating the Chase logic sequence would be different.

[loopus]

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Oh please God, do not let there be keys involved!! In my opinion, the greatest feature of NT is that it is mouse-driven! Please, please, please do not let there be keys involved.

I'd rather not have to do two things in order to move targets/stops, but if I HAD to change, I'd rather accomplish it all with just the mouse.If I absolutely HAD to change from a single click to move my targets and stops, I'd rather click on a target/stop to highlight it, then click on the place I want to move it to (not drag and drop). That way I could at least pre-highlight the target/stop the action was closest to, then I would only have to do the one remaining click to move it if I needed to. Not optimum, but the least extra work/confusion I can think of in a fast market. But only if I HAD to change.

Also, using the scroll wheel to move the ladder is a good, fast feature, especially in a fast moving market. When things are rocking, there isn't time to take focus off the price ladder to find and focus on a little box to click, then re-focus on the ladder.

thanks

[ckapilla]

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Ray,

I like the gist of these ideas a lot, but I think it is a tad too complicated. I think it would be better using a single key only (preferably Ctrl because it is on the corner of the keyboard and you can 'feel' that you are on the right one without looking). Once you get into "ctrl does this, and shift does that and Alt does this", then mistakes are guaranteed to happen. I think keeping the existing convention of right click and middle click for stop orders would be better.

I really like the ctrl-wheel approach to move a price, and as I wrote before, I like ctrl-click to add to an order (ctrl-left, ctrl-right and ctrl-middle).

This would have the advantage of requiring less 'user re-education' for existing users, the program would continue to work as is for those who did not want to add orders.

[plunger]

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The loss of position in the fill queu is a fundamental problem with NinjaTrader at the present time. Your plan to solve that problem is commendable. Without getting good fills one cannot be an effective daytrader. With the current version any change to an order puts you at the back of the line will much less likelyhood of getting a favorable fill or at times any fill. I understand what you are trying to do and if you can achieve it you will greatly improve the NT platform. I think most people will quickly get used to it and love it because their profitablily has to go up.

[Rob Richardson]

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I just started reading the support forum and I was wondering what is the status of the "Drag and Drop" Versus "Keying changes" discussion? Is there a decision and when might we see a sample?

If it's not too late, I was wondering if "Nesting"might be an option.

I could see having multiple buy and sell columns on the sides of the trading ladder. Each column would have 1 to 3 orders (just like today) each managed with the mouse buttons just like today.

When a column has no orders in it ... the column disappears. Only one sell and one buy column can be manipulated at a time. You would click the top of column to select it for manipulation. All other columns can be "minimized" andun-highlitedas visual clues.

Anew orderis entered by opening a column (if needed) and placing theorder. Whenthe order is filled; stops and targetseither fillpartial columns or (under config rules) create a new columnsto match that entry.

Advantages:

1) It preserves all the mousing reflexesin our muscle memory... i.e. its backward compatible to what we all know.

2) It allows us to manage multiple orders at the same price without ruining our position in the queue... Each column can have orders at the same price.

3) Its a little less error prone than drag and drop.

4) No more keys than we already have.

5) I think it can make restarting aDOM in the middle of a trade easier.All open orders for an instrument could be picked up in one DOM and displayed without guessing whichDOM the order belongs to. (We may only need one liveDOM per instrument with this)

6) It saves screen space compared to having multiple DOMs open.

Disadvantages

1) Potential for some extra mouse clicks.

2) Programming complexity?

3) Some extra screen space.

Just a thought



Rob Richardson