two rithmic accounts connected at same time

[llanqui]

Hello,

How do I set up so I can have two different Rithmic accounts connected at the same time?

thx

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Helo llanqui,

Thank you for posting.

Currently there can only be one connection to Rithmic running at a time within NinjaTrader and simultaneous connections are not currently supported. Please use the link below to submit this request to our product team for consideration to implement in future releases:

NinjaTrader Feature Request Form

You can use this link for future feedback or features you'd like to see as well.

Let me know if I may be of further assistance.

[llanqui]

what about plug in mode? what is that for?

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Plug in mode is used when running both a connection within NinjaTrader and a connection to same account within Rithmic Trader Pro at the same time.

[llanqui]

My purpose is to run a custom Trade Copier (I wrote) between Apex and Amp Futures (both Rithmic) accounts


Then how about running two ninja instances on the same computer.....and using TCP/IP to communicate the copy trades between the two (my custom code)

How to do this?

A) copy the NinjaTrader executable and Documents to a new folders and run the second from there?

1) two different Windows Users .... can I run a second instance of Ninja if it is under a different Windows User?

2) what about with a Virtual Machine? (more resources)

I could run the second instance of Ninja on another computer on the LAN, but prefer to have both on the same workstation

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Currently you may only have one instance of NinjaTrader open at a time and unfortunately these workaround would not work as in order to copy trades with a trade copier all accounts would need to be connected within the same instance of NinjaTrader.

[Tickdataman]

best suggestion is to check the ecosystem and connect the accounts with a trade copier on a remote server.

here you can see all of the available options for this configuration

server: https://ninjatraderecosystem.com/sea...fwp_search=vps
copier: https://ninjatraderecosystem.com/sea..._search=copier

[bltdavid]

My purpose is to run a custom Trade Copier (I wrote) between Apex and Amp Futures (both Rithmic) accounts

Wait, did you say AMP?
You're trading futures on NinjaTrader via an AMP account?
That could be an important detail ... Why? Well, because AMP
is no longer a supported brokerage, and hasn't been for quite
some time.

You signed up for this forum in Oct 2020, but still, you said AMP,
which usually means long-time NinjaTrader user, right?

Let's examine that a bit.

Idea #1:
Do you have an older (grandfathered) license key?
Is it an older lifetime key?
Is it a older Multi-Broker lifetime license key?
If so, contact your AMP broker and see about switching from Rithmic to CQG.
Or, if your M/B lifetime key is over 10 years old, read this and this, because
you might actually be able to connect to two Rithmic accounts today.

Idea #2:
Why are you still using Apex/Rithmic?
Stop using Apex/Rithmic and switch to Apex/Tradovate.
You'll have to start brand new Apex/Tradovate evals, but these would
use the newer 8.1.x.x 'NinjaTrader' connection type, which would then
leave the Rithmic connection type free for use by your AMP account.
Using the M/B feature, you could connect to both Apex/Tradovate and
AMP/Rithmic at the same time (but then, maybe keeping Apex/Rithmix
and switching to AMP/CQG might be an easier move).

Then how about running two ninja instances on the same computer.....and using TCP/IP to communicate the copy trades between the two (my custom code)

You can do this, but only if one instance is NT8 and the other is NT7.
You cannot run two instances of NT8 or NT7 on the same computer
at the same time (regardless of install location, regardless of user),
but NT has always allowed an NT7/NT8 combo to run at the same
time on the same PC using the same license key.

Let's forget NT7.

If you have two separate PCs, and run NT8 on each of them, yes,
you could use a TCP/IP socket connection in your trade copier to
communicate between the 'server' copier and the 'client' copier.

This is what Replikanto and SpeedTradingServer's Network Replicator
have done. My own trade copier does this, too. Works great.

How to do this?

A) copy the NinjaTrader executable and Documents to a new folders and run the second from there?

1) two different Windows Users .... can I run a second instance of Ninja if it is under a different Windows User?

Not possible. A second instance of NinjaTrader.exe is not allowed
to run if an instance of NinjaTrader.exe is already running. The new
folder start location, or a new user account, doesn't matter. Neither
of these will make any difference.

2) what about with a Virtual Machine? (more resources)

I could run the second instance of Ninja on another computer on the LAN

Just to be clear ...
There is absolutely no way to run two instances of NT8 inside one instance of Windows.
If you need two instances of NT8, then you must use two difference instances of
Windows, which, duh, means you'll need two different Windows computers.

That said ...
A virtual machine running locally on your PC (or remotely, via a VPS service) counts
as a second Windows computer, so using a VM would work just fine, absolutely.

Even with two instances of NT8 running on two different computers (real or VM/VPS,
doesn't matter), you'd still need to add the client/server TCP/IP socket code to your
trade copier.

Summary:
You should investigate switching AMP to CQG, make sure to check with both AMP
and NT about this making this move. Or, setup new Apex accounts using the new
Tradovate option, which uses the new 'NinjaTrader' connection type, which allows
your AMP account to continue with Rithmic. Either way, you'll surely need the Multi
Broker Add-on option, which is $99/mon (but free if you imported an M/B lifetime
license key into your new NinjaTrader.com member account).

It's either use a Network aware trade copier using two different instances of NT8
(and connect to Apex/Rithmic on PC1 and AMP/Rithmic on PC2) or use a single
instance of NT8 with M/B Add-on and connect to Apex/Tradovate and AMP/Rithmic
together (or Apex/Rithmic and AMP/CQG) which would then make all accounts
visible for your trade copier inside that single instance of NT8.

Just my 2˘.

[llanqui]

in this post I'll say this....I contacted Rithmic and will soon modify my trade copier to use the Rithmic C# API copy the trades for non-apex accounts. This bypasses the Ninja Rithmic adapter for those accounts and should work.

I'm no longer afraid of such projects....am getting amazing support with chatgpt and deepseek.

the next post I'll address bltDavid

[llanqui]

Hello bltDavid:

** I'm a software engineer and developed an NT based system system specifically for scalping ES and NQ. I had to extend Ninja a lot to do this. For fast scalping. I'm not really interested in porting this code base to another platform as it is mature and working perfectly, finally.

** I've owned a multi-broker, lifetime,license of Ninja since 2010, more or less.

** I am now (as of today) using CQG with AMP and my trade copier works fine with the master account on Apex Rithmic. Some slippage and it is noticeably slower than Rithmic, but it might work Ok on average. It is continues OK, then I won't bother with the API

** I thought Tradervate had its own planform...do you mean it works with Ninja?

** But anyway, it seems the Rithmic feed is adequate for professional level traders....I used to use CQG but had a lot of problems with it.

** I could write TCP/IP to copy trades to a VPS or another machine on my LAN, but decided I want all the orders/positions on my primary trading machine. (A VPS won't work for fast scalping.)

** my conclusion after looking at several trade copiers is that I can code one that works better for me, and is integrated into my code base.

[bltdavid]

** I thought Tradervate had its own planform...do you mean it works with Ninja?

Depends on your definition of 'works with' ...

NinjaTrader bought Tradovate awhile back.

-=o=-

Check Apex's website, you'll see that you can buy
either Rithmic based eval accounts or Tradovate
based eval accounts, you can mix & match all you
want, but you can't convert one to the other.

Apex/Rithmic based accts use the 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader
Brokerage' connection type.

Apex/Tradovate based accts use the NT developed
'NinjaTrader' connection type, which is brand new and
only available in the 8.1.x.x releases. No doubt this
connection type was born by using the codebase
acquired via their Tradovate purchase.

-=o=-

As far as Tradovate's own platform, I don't know much
about it prior, but no doubt it existed. Since the newer
8.1.x.x releases, it's clear NT mgmt is leveraging the
established Tradovate codebase -- where do you think
the new Web & Mobile NT versions came from?

Sounds like you're doing well.

[llanqui]

This is an addendum to the previous post about the need for two concurrently connected Rithmic accounts...

After digging into this a bit more here is what it seems to me....

Probably the current Rithmic adapter came over from Nnja 7 and has not been updated much at all. ???

My guess is that it has a very low priority in the developer queue because Ninja has its own brokerage, now for some time. Why would they help users connect to a second or third brokerage?

That being said, my guess is that technically the reason there is only one connection allowed is that the adapter is single threaded. ???

It seems that it would not be so hard to make the adapter multi-threaded, with each Rithmic account connection having its own thread.

If so then this is just a matter of allocating developer resources to the project.

There are Trade Copiers that can trade across multiple Rithmic accounts. And RTrader can have several instances running, each with a different account open.

So, this must be an issue with the Ninjatrader Rithmic adapter.

Probably if Ninja released the code to public domain, us software engineers could rebuild it to mult-thread.

If the code was modular enough it would not reveal any proprietary processes.

[NinjaTrader_Clayton]

Post has been moved as this is still pertaining to the prior forum thread topic.

[bltdavid]

I think the benefit (and the allure, if you will) of the brand new
'NinjaTrader' connection type is the unlimited number of account
connections it supports.

Yes. Unlimited. That's a huge deal.

As you know ...
You can only connect to one Rithmic based account at a time,
which is due to a limitation in the 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage'
connection type, which is called an adapter. You define as many
connections as you want for as many prop firms as you want, but
you can only connect to one of them at a time.

My understanding is the newer 'NinjaTrader' adapter has no such
limitation.

Why is that a big deal?

Imagine if all the prop firms started to offer Tradovate based
eval accounts (like what Apex does), then by using the brand
new 'NinjaTrader' connection type, an NT user of the 8.1.x.x
releases could could connect to all those 'NinjaTrader' based
eval accounts from all those prop firms all at the same time!

Somewhat of a brilliant idea, don't you think?

I know Legends trading started with all eval accounts as
Tradeovate based, I think Rithmic is something they'll worry
about adding later.

Looks like Rithmic's hold on the prop firm business appears
to be gaining some actual competition.

I assume ...
NT mgmt never wanted to modify the Rithmic one connection
limitation probably because they had plans to write their own
unlimited connection adapter -- which with 8.1.x.x appears to
now be available as the new 'NinjaTrader' connection type,
which appears to be based on the Tradovate codebase, which
they purchased in Jan 2022.

Enjoy!

[bltdavid]

Good reading here.

[NinjaTrader_Clayton]

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for the updates.

NinjaTrader 7 is no longer receiving updates. This is resulting in the NinjaTrader 7 platform progressively losing connection to more adapters from it being so outdated that it is not supported by the various providers' newer connection technologies

• Also, NinjaTrader 7 is not supported for use with Evaluation Accounts. So, if you want to try it, you are using it at your own risk.

When it comes to NinjaTrader 8.1.4.1:

The only way to have a 2nd Rithmic-based connection active within One platform is if the user purchased a Lifetime License Key before July of 2014 so that they are Grandfathered into the old agreements from that time.

If you qualify for this and do not already see the "Rithmic" connection within your platform, please email Support[AT]NinjaTrader[DOT]com with your License Key and NinjaTrader Username for us to apply it to.

• From there, the "Rithmic" connection type would appear allowing a user to set up a 2nd simultaneous connection.
  • The "Rithmic" adapter is also limited to only One active "Rithmic" connection at a time.
• There is no way to get this if you did not purchase a Lifetime License Key before July of 2014 and it is NOT possible to make any exceptions to this.

As for the "Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage" connection adapter, it will continue to only support one active connection and there are no plans to change this due to the agreements and polices set forth by Rithmic.

NinjaTrader does not support two active connections to a Rithmic-based connection simultaneously due to limitations imposed by Rithmic's infrastructure and policies.

• Many brokers and data providers, including Rithmic, have restrictions on multiple simultaneous logins for the same credentials to prevent data duplication, excessive server load, and potential issues with order execution.
• This restriction ensures stable data feeds and reduces the risk of order mismatches or unintended trading activity.
  • Therefore, it is not possible to change the connection adapter so that more than one Simultaneous connection can be made.

As prior users have suggested, the newer "NinjaTrader" connection type that utilizes the Tradovate-connection Technology supports unlimited simultaneous connections within one platform.

• So, if you plan on utilizing multiple evaluation accounts across multiple providers, you could look into getting Tradovate-based Evaluation accounts so that they can all connect simultaneously using the "NinjaTrader" connection type.
  • Utilizing the Tradovate-based connection type would also allow users to connect and see their Evaluation accounts within the Tradovate Web Platform and NinjaTrader Web Platform

Otherwise, if you want to use a Rithmic-based account, then you will be limited to One Active connection to that connection type per Platform and PC and there is nothing that can be done to change that due to the agreements and policies in place from Rithmic themselves.


Please let us know if we may provide any further assistance.