From chart trader dialog, close vs sell market

[Kraken29]

As the title says, I'm wondering what the difference between the "close" button and the "sell market" button on the chart trader dialog? Thank you!

[bltdavid]

Well, uh, those buttons are somewhat self-explanatory,
and usually a few experiments with Sim101 will help you
quickly understand them.

Have you done that?

-=o=-

The Close button is pretty simple.

The Close button will send the appropriate orders needed
to exit your current position (if there is one), and cancel
all remaining orders (if any exist).

If you are 'LONG 2', Close will send a 'SELL 2 at MARKET'
to exit the current position, and cancels all remaining orders.

If you are 'SHORT 2', Close will send 'BUY 2 at MARKET'
to exit the current position, and cancels all remaining orders.

If you are FLAT, Close just cancels all remaining orders.

-=o=-

The Sell Mkt button is more complicated, but still very straight
forward.

The Sell Mkt button will send the order 'SELL n at MARKET'
where 'n' comes from the 'Order qty' field on the chart trader.

But, what really happens depends on your current position.

If you are FLAT, then Sell Mkt enters a SHORT position.

If you are SHORT, then Sell Mkt increases your SHORT position.

If you are LONG, then Sell Mkt first sells from your current
position and leaves you in a LONG, FLAT or SHORT position
depending on the 'Order qty' being less than, equal to, or greater
than your current position quantity.

-=o=-

So, can the Sell Mkt button exit the current position, just like
the Close button?

Yes, absolutely. But, you have to know what you're doing.

Caveat #1:
Sell Mkt is like Close only if the 'Order qty' field is the exact
same as the quantity of the current position, and only if the
current position is LONG.

Caveat #2:
Where as Close cancels all remaining orders, such as a stop
loss and/or profit target orders, the Sell Mkt button would not
cancel those orders. Even if Sell Mkt causes the position to
become FLAT, any remaining orders are not cancelled.

-=o=-

You should now devour the help pages here,

https://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/NT%20HelpGuide%20English.html?chart_trader.htm

-=o=-

Make sure you watch the video on the above help page.

I'll close by saying that a deeper understanding of those
buttons really really requires you study more about the
Chart Trader itself.

Why?
Because those buttons are intimately tied to the concept
of the 'ATM Strategy' -- and what they really end up doing
depends upon the ATM strategy selected in that dropdown.

So, you may need to restart your discovery and first create
an ATM strategy for use in your Sim101 experiments.

My point is, the Chart Trader buttons make more sense as to
what they are really capable of once you better understand
ATM strategies.

Start your study of ATM strategies here,
https://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/NT%20HelpGuide%20English.html?advanced_trade_manag ement_atm.htm

[bltdavid]

Want a deep dive into the Close button?

Hold your nose, and let's begin.

To really understand the Close button, you should read this page,

https://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/NT%20HelpGuide%20English.html?closing_a_position_o r_atm_stra.htm

But that page has a crappy explanation, because the 'offset
order' it sends to close the position is a Market order.

So, why does the bottom section poo-poo the sending of a
Market order?

Because the doc writer who created that NT8 help page
did it quickly but incompetently, resulting in a crap job.

How so?

They used the prior NT7 help page of the same topic but
did an incomplete job when updating it, making the whole
process of what Close button does in NT7 vs NT8 rather
confusing -- resulting in the NT8 explanation becoming an
example of documentation bit rot.

How did this 'documentation bit rot' come about?

NT7 docs say the Target order is used to exit the position.
NT8 docs say the Target order is canceled, and then a
opposite Market order is used to exit the current position.

In the NT8 docs, if you read carefully, the Market order is
referred to as an 'offset order' -- this is a crap description,
used by an incompetent doc writer who updated the page
from NT7 to NT8.

These are the 'documentation bit rot' issues:

1. NT8 docs should not say 'offset order', it is too imprecise
and fails to adequately explain what orders NT8 Close is really
sending.

2. NT8 docs no longer need the 'Why not just submit a market
order?' explanation section -- since, uh, duh, that NT7 section
contradicts exactly what NT8 Close is documented as doing.

Just my 2˘.

[bltdavid]

The issues?

1. NT8 docs should not say 'offset order', it is too imprecise
and fails to adequately explain what orders NT8 Close is really
sending.

2. NT8 docs no longer need the 'Why not just submit a market
order' explanation section -- since, uh, duh, that NT7 section
contradicts exactly what NT8 Close is documented as doing.

My point is, the NT8 docs were worded to avoid the term
'market order' (they used 'offset order' instead) so that the
last section 'Why not just use a market order?' could remain.

That was a poor decision (probably made in haste to meet
the deadline for the NT7 to NT8 help guide migration).

-- To NT Support --

Read the NT7 help page and NT8 help page very carefully.

Pay close attention to the 4 example steps describing the
actions taken by the Close button.

The NT8 doc writer took great pains to avoid saying 'market
order' to describe what NT8 Close does so that older NT7
section 'Why not just use a market order?' could be copied
into the NT8 docs.

The section 'Why not just use a market order?' should be
removed from the NT8 docs, since it doesn't make any
sense for the way NT8 Close is documented as working.

[Kraken29]

Well, uh, those buttons are somewhat self-explanatory,
and usually a few experiments with Sim101 will help you
quickly understand them.

I have, yes, and I continue to. I'm new to trading, so it will be a good bit longer of experimenting before I do anything live. Thanks for the detailed explanation, I'll study it carefully, I appreciate the help!

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello bltdavid,

Thank you for explaining these buttons in ChartTrader.

I have contacted my superiors regarding the "Why not just use a market order?" paragraph in the NinjaTrader 8 help guide. Thank you for pointing out.