ChatGPT integration into Ninjascript Code Editor?

[shirokuma]

From a totally diferent point of view (Linguistic modeling) I can only advise not to use ChatGPT for anything that has any serious implications. ChatGPT is foremost a chatbot, its basic function being fluent in "talking" about any given subject. For that it does however at times "hallucinate" badly (=output that is total crap) just to maintain its "chatability". If you tell it so, it answers in a fashion like "... trying my best to ..., but ..." In a nutshell: Do not rely on it for serious business!

[QuantKey_Bruce]

I've found that it hallucinates almost 100% of the time on code-related questions, unless the question is one that's on Google, but in that case, why would you need ChatGPT?

What it does is create something that "sounds really good" to a non-technical person, and to someone who is an expert, looks like complete BS.

[jeronymite]

Whilst I agree with you, QuantKey_Bruce, I have found that if one is aware of that highly problematic behaviour and one treats the "suggested" code with extreme caution, it can occasionally point one in a direction one might not otherwise have considered. It requires care in the query and its interpretation, and really does need significant underlying knowledge and experience to interpret, but it's interesting how it can sometimes come up with rather "oblique" references that spur new thinking. Rather like asking a child a profound question -- most answers are naïve ... but sometimes an unusual answer can generate a new perspective in the adult questioner.

Thanks.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

All of this is true, and interesting as a side issue, yet, what they're asking for is a sort of "code it for me" option where they put in plain text and it generates an indicator for them in NinjaScript Editor. That's what this thread is about. And in that context, I think, having it hallucinate various creative or naive approaches is probably counterproductive. Perhaps that could be its own thing, and not NinjaScript Editor, but then, we already have Visual Studio with Copilot and you can type your questions into ChatGPT directly as well if you want.

[jeronymite]

I agree, QuantKey_Bruce. It's not a useful option for novice programmers. Much more likely to generate confusion, frustration and angst for NinjaTrader Support.

Thanks.

[brenthilburn]

Quality programming and engineering takes some skill... At that level, CharGPT is fairly useless... The few times I have given it an indicator or strategy task to "code" it comes back with a mash of code snippets that often won't even compile in Ninjatrader...

Bottom line is you can't roll out of bed and decide you are a trader and have something whip out some code for you to auto trade so you can go back to sleep... This industry is full of VERY SERIOUS people with million/billions in play at any given time who employ math PHD's and quants... ChatGPT is for fun and not for serious people who want to put real capital on the line...

Spend the time to get good at trading and/or coding... There isn't a shortcut...

[joedtrades1982]

Well, I think you all prove my point.

4 decades of experience coding: that is not the average profile for a prospective NT consumer! Plenty of MDs, PhDs, JDs, MBAs, etc: those are plenty smart folks who can click a mouse to trade but don't want to re-invent themselves as C# experts.

For example:

The Half Trend indicator on TradingView is free. If you want it on NT 8, you either code it or pay some vendor $249. I coded it, but most folks would not want to bother at all, so they would stick with TradingView instead. Such people would certainly benefit from an AI Assistant that converts Pine Script (or MQL4 or whatever else) to Ninjascript. Otherwise, it's hard to see the value proposition of using NT instead of TradingView.

ChatGPT is not designed to code in Ninjascript; yet, I used it this morning, and it shed a lot of light on some subjects for me. If it was customized by NT to support NT 8 users, it would greatly expand the number of people who would consider using NT 8, and it would benefit existing NT users, also. Finally, a bigger, more successful NT would certainly be beneficial to everybody.

You hit the nail on the head here. There needs to be a way that demystifies coding strategies and makes it easier for the "standard user" to create custom strategies on their own. This makes perfect business sense, at least to me... Not everyone has the time, knowledge, skills, or ability to learn how to code and create that perfectly functioning-as-intended C# ninjascript. If such a capability existed this would open the door for a LOT more folks to use ninjatrader and get the most functionality out of it. Background about me, Ive got a MBA, Im a federal IT program manager, have been trading for years now and have been "playing" with Ninjatrader for a couple months now. All I want is a tool that makes coding new strategies more accessable to me. I have a demanding full time job, kids, a house to manage, etc. I dont have the time to learn how to code right now.. I tried using chatgpt to code a simple SMA crossover strategy with trailing ATR stops. What I was able to configure on my own with watching youtuube videos and using gpt is making money for me in my paper trading account, but the strategy is not working entirely as it should. I feel the folks who manage the business side of ninjatrader not taking full advantage of the various gpt's that are available now are missing out on a HUGE opportunity to bridge the knowledge gap at get more folks on board the ninjatrader platform.

[brenthilburn]

I don't know why it still amazes me how people genuinely want something for nothing... Professionals no less with the alphabet behind their names who wouldn't give anyone the time of day if they dared to infringe on their "valuable time" but yet they fully expect it from everyone else... If you can't code then pay another professional and get it done right..

Ninjatrader doesn't have a business interest in adding chat gpt to the platform for a few reasons... First, the platform is free now... Before when they were charging for licensing then it made at least a little sense... no longer... second, why would they want to compete with their own ecosystem? If there is a BUSINESS interest, then one of the vendors will step up and take on the task for profit... and finally, the support nightmare has only yet to begin when they integrate programs that are changing so fast that developers can barely keep up much less have a stable code base... and what happens when the next great "gpt" comes along? The entitled class will want that integrated as well... for free....

[Pedro79]

Any AI which can help to non-programmer skilled people is very good, mainly in the beginning to test if their idea has some potential to develop or it is waste of time. For me, who probably never will be able to code as would wanted, is using ChatGPT very good to help to create the ideas into the codes and backtest. This way I could created and tested my ideas I have collected for last 12 years I trade. Tnx to AI I know which my ideas has potential and which does not and mainly, on which markets. This gave me more satisfaction I have ever learned in trading and also, release my huge ideas from my head I have collected for many trading years. ..and that's how it should be in trading (and not only in trading), because trading is about ideas and there is no better way than to be able to program an idea in any way and have it tested by a program in a few minutes, because doing it manually is unimaginable,..that's how we did it in in the beginning, right? :-)
On the second side, the work with ChatGPT is also Nightmare because I had to learn how to ask that and also know, that after 3 times of bad his interpretations, the ChatGPT usually got stucked and start to "invent lies".
Also I found that best programmers seems to be in Python, besides the Ninjascript and Pinescript for Tradingview what I tested.
That all means that I would be very happy to implements the AI for Ninjatrader I use despite I know how work-load this will create for support NT team,..as one of IT support who 3-times burned out for last 20 years working in IT and had to stop to work in this business definitelly.
So whatever anyone thinks about AI, it really doesn't matter, because AI can't be stopped now and will be with us more and more, because it will constantly bring new positives and make joint work many times faster and richer, but also often more demanding..so the world will just spin a lot faster again, as is the case with every major new technology in the past.

[Conceptzx]

For what it's worth, you can try my Ai Coder, it isn't perfect, but it will usually get you close.

https://github.com/ConceptzX/Ai-Coder

[PaulMohn]

Why not start from studying scripts from the User Apps Share?

Why not classify those scripts with quality metadata, easily searchable as with structured data?
For instance, a user needs examples of hotkeys with ATM template attachment code.
The database would filter for this indicator:
https://ninjatraderecosystem.com/use...ng-from-chart/
A user needs a sound alert?
The database filters scripts with sound alerts and all involved concepts (bool flags etc.)
A user needs a variable for spacing horizontal lines?
The database filters scripts (ideally like on github with specific scripts blocks) with such examples.

Then provide centralized templates / snippets of codes solutions 90% of questions ask about?
For example:
A huge file with all the snippets commented answering 90% of questions new user will have to face.
A sort of dotnetperls but specific to ninjascript in a continuous file.

Why not port all User Apps Share scripts to github or similar repo site for direct access to code and snippets for ease of reference and study?

Why not group similar scripts for teaching/study reference?

Why not make a schedule of "best scripts" to study for beginners, covering all the basis needed for C# but only for use in ninjascript context?

Why not provide a fee based or platform cost extra ninjascript training quality the like of Rize Capital but affordable?

Why not share the Ninjascript technicians training to users?

Why not release tutorials videos of basic demonstration from the Ninjascript team archives so users can directly learn from best practices examples?



In parallel for AI enthusiasts and skilled operators:

Why not use an open source LLM for testing and training freedom and controlled accuracy tailored to Ninjascript code only?
Then share Ninjascript specific models on a new User Apps Share section?

Should make sense to test models locally first to measure their accuracy and productivity enhancement.
Then when the models are of good performance share those models.
Flexibility, control, performance check and optimization in the power of the user would be as a result.

Here's an open source LLM:

https://youtu.be/Coj72EzmX20

* h2o HuggingFace: https://huggingface.co/h2oai
* h2o website: https://h2o.ai/
* h2oGPT UI: https://falcon.h2o.ai/
* h2oGPT GM-UI : https://gpt-gm.h2o.ai/
* h2oGPT github repo: https://github.com/h2oai/h2ogpt

[Conceptzx]

I agree with learning the nuances of code, but I also believe in using the tools available to you.

I've worked a little on the prompt engineering, adding functionality, additional GPT models, and additional language support on my modified Ai Code Translator. It's been pretty good all things considered, even for translation from Pine Script.

[PaulMohn]

I agree with learning the nuances of code, but I also believe in using the tools available to you.

I've worked a little on the prompt engineering, adding functionality, additional GPT models, and additional language support on my modified Ai Code Translator. It's been pretty good all things considered, even for translation from Pine Script.

Nice project. I see you got a new one. Excited to see people posting code conversion videos to get up and running.

[PaulMohn]

A first draft of my Ninjatrader 8 Cheatsheet:

https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/...r-8-cheatsheet

Interested in suggestions for improvement or other NT8 cheatsheets from users.

[PaulMohn]

Good step by step to learn building strategies with custom indicator and trailing stop from Strategy Builder
(no coding needed, though it's very good to pause and check "View Code" to see what's done behind the scene)

Build A SuperTrend Bot on Strategy Builder | NinjaTrader 8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8D1H6TLFmo