NinjaTrader Desktop while offline

[QuantKey_Bruce]

Is it presently possible to launch NinjaTrader Desktop in version 8.1 or later without an internet connection?

[jeronymite]

QuantKey_Bruce Seems like it is not possible:



Thanks.

[NinjaTrader_Manfred]

Hello QuantKey_Bruce,

Thank you very much for your post.

jeronymite is correct. NinjaTrader 8.1 requires the license server to authenticate and would not currently be able to launch if the PC is not connected to the internet.

Please don't hesitate to let me know, should you have any further questions in this regard!

[KonstantinosNT]

After the NinjaTrader_Manfred's statement that the new NT version cannot work offline,
I am reaching to the conclusion that the new version 8.1.1.0 instead of being more capable and more functional as it should be,
it actually has less functionality than the previous version 8.0.27.1.
I could work offline with no problem (let say, developing a strategy or indicator, or doing many other works and functions, etc.)
with version 8.0.27.1 but now, using the new version 8.1.1.0, I can’t do anything offline anymore.

Would you consider this situation as a «progress», or as a better «user experience» ?
Is anyboby going to feel particular happy for taking less instead of more ?
Are you really sure that the version 8.1.1.0 is indeed a step forward ?

I am asking that, because it seems to me more like a step backwards, taking into consideration all the announced specs,
let alone the many problems that have been reported by users.

With all due respect to the NT Management and the Developers, I think that many certain improvements are required
for the v.8.1 finally becoming succefully adopted by the majority of existing users of this great Platform.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

NinjaTrader 8.1 requires the license server to authenticate and would not currently be able to launch if the PC is not connected to the internet.

That is what I was assuming based on the observed behavior but wanted to get a clear statement to be certain that this is the policy decision for now so I can be sure.

Would NinjaTrader consider then making it possible to start up offline if the most recent username and password sign-on was successful and was within the past 15 days? That would address the majority of the concern, I think...

Obviously, we have off-line optimizations to consider and research where we're not connected (traveling such as on a plane, etc.) but also, we have to consider what happens when NinjaTrader's servers are down - I'm sure the plan is for them to never be down, but everything is down sometimes due to unforeseeable circumstances.

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Thank you for all the feedback here, we understand this may be a limitation for some users of the platform in certain situations. Historically NinjaTrader Desktop has always needed an internet connection to function fully, although it was possible to start the platform and use certain features without being connected. I will note this to our development team and see if there is any future feature or workaround that can be explored here.

Our hope with this change is to make a single sign on of sorts so users can clearly and easily access their account using the same login process across Desktop/Web/Mobile, while also using the same credentials in all platforms. Additionally this allows users to manage much more of their accounts and enablements than before when features were hidden/managed by a License Key system.

Again we hope these improvements outweigh some of the detriments pointed out but we attempt to provide solutions to problems with the new NinjaTrader Desktop experience as they come up.

[Leeroy_Jenkins]

what happens when NinjaTrader's servers are down - I'm sure the plan is for them to never be down, but everything is down sometimes due to unforeseeable circumstances.

I often can't connect to NT servers during weekends because they do server maintenance.

[bltdavid]

I often can't connect to NT servers during weekends because they do server maintenance.

It's unscheduled and unannounced, and could be NinjaTrader's servers,
(such as their license servers or historical data servers -- if you're using
Rithmic or CQG-based connections, you need Ninja's HDS machines to
be up and available) otherwise it could be your broker's servers, esp
the broker's own authentication servers.

I doubt your broker's order feed or realtime data feed servers have
any 'use' being available on weekends, but who knows how it's all
designed in the broker's backend?

Just saying ... it's not always NT's servers causing the frustration.

We ... just ... don't ... know.

-=o=-

The 'unannounced and unscheduled' bits are the real bummer.

If only there was some webpage that could be used to redirect
users to when their logins fail, something that would show the
the underlying status of the various servers, so it could be easy
to spot what is preventing the connection.

If I had a dime for every time a NinjaTrader user somewhere in
the world freaked out because their login failed with the error
(I paraphrase here) "login failed, please check your password
and internet connection" ... I'd be a very rich man.

You want a founding decision that shows a sense of contempt
for users? It's that login failure message, throwing the blame
and worry back at the user ... when the login failure has nothing
to do with the user but everything to do with (somebody else's)
backend server.

Was a status webpage ever possible? Yes! When the cause is
NT's own servers, under their direct control, a server status web
page could have been designed and made available to users with
login failures -- but NT mgmt must have never thought to provide
this level of service, maybe because advertising your servers
are down is bad juju in the press, who knows what justifications
were used. It was self-serving corporate crap thinking -- the
kind that alienates users who discover later they were actually
blameless for that login failure -- that it's just an over used and
poorly designed error message.

[EDIT: Of course, during the startup phase, mgmt is under the
gun to release product and make revenue, but it's obvious there
was no plan to circle back and address this issue. And that's
a founding decision that instantiated this detached attitude
towards users that is now firmly rooted in the corporate
culture.]

The silent anxiety and wasted time that that stupid %$#^*@#
login failure message has caused for countless users over the
years ... it must be mind-blowing, staggering, just incredible.
But I digress.

-=o=-

Why do I rant on this?

"It goes to cause, your honor."

Just my 2˘.



PS:
Quite the rant ... sorry about that ... carry on.

[backtester831]

I'm sure the plan is for them to never be down, but everything is down sometimes due to unforeseeable circumstances.

New NT Web is based on Tradovate, and anyone that's had a simultaneous account with Tradovate knows, it goes offline an uncomfortable amount of time. Just two days ago NT Web, Tradovate, and (thanks to the new user experience) NT Desktop 8.1, everything was offline for ~30 minutes during prime trading time after Fed Powell spoke.. See: https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/...log-in-is-dead

I guess with the new server side ATMs, you wouldn't be completely screwed if you had a pending order with ATM attached during the extended offline event, although I don't know if the server side ATMs were also affected during the outage 2 days ago or not.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

See also this post where I replied to another user's complaint with a screenshot demonstrating that you can log in offline in 8.0 without any problem.

[KirkHammett]

Hi!

It is really super annoying that we cannot start NT Desktop offline any more! I'm sure most developers want to have this! Please add my vote to this feature request!

[ClauTrade]

Hello ...this is a desaster, again servers OFFLINE from a large time!
NT must be available all time as is a platform that can be used offline for developing porpose.
Please fix this to offer 100% servers time ON ... or come back to the OFFLINE working.

[sidlercom80]

Servers down. It's very annoying that you can no longer use NT offline. I also have to be able to work offline. It's unbelievable what NT was thinking! Another no go that just makes me shake my head violently.

[suraj]

Up until now I had always counted on being able to use NT8 and previously NT7 "offline" even when no internet connection was available it always came back with only the Simulated Trading box checked and displayed as opposed to also the "Live Trading" and "Multi-broker" boxes checked and displayed when internet connection was available.

This was a very comforting and reassuring feature at those times when due to diverse reasons no internet connection was available we could do development or housekeeping tasks and it felt good to have invested in lifetime license for this platform.

Recently when considering a platform for a particular series of applications in a group, many platforms were being considered including Trading View which is relatively inexpensive - I was happily able to lobby for using NT8 given all its features as a reliable, stable platform including being able to use it when there is no internet connection. Looks like NT8 is moving away from this direction.

Using an older version than this latest I am still able to work in SIM mode and do development work including using replay mode to back test (provided we had previously downloaded corresponding data). This is such a big value.

I would request Ninja Trader to please explain to me why this feature is being taken away, Because this was available to us I am assuming with a lifetime license and because in SIM mode no servers are required to log into brokers. I would also request Ninja Trader to reinstate this feature for the future updates and versions.

Thanks,
Suraj

[Leeroy_Jenkins]

suraj because they removed license key for new users and instead implemented login wall that can't be skipped. It like NT8.0 or NT7.0 would require entering your license key at every startup. Really lame. Somehow those login servers can be down while I can login on my 8.0.26.0 and CQG and Kinetick work perfectly. And even If they don't I still can use platform for condding/charting.

They should inform users about all those maintenances beforehand so people can at very least launch NT8.1 before and keep PC turned on. Ridiculous solution for a program developed in 2023.