Overnight Margin

[Mokaru Zen]

Thanks Lancer for posting this. It is even clearer.
Unfortunately all those references give a lot of definition but does not provide clarity.
It would be better to have the whole Lancer's posting somewhere in the NinjaTrader brokerage website.

[Lancer]

When the three margin conditions apply, and exceptions:

(Example times applicable to CME products with markets closed between 4:00 PM and 5:00 PM CT, excluding holidays. All times are US Central Time.)

Intraday Margin
The broker Intraday Margin requirement applies to open positions during the current intraday session, between the 5:00 PM session start and the Intraday Margin end at 3:45 PM on the next day. Intraday Margin applies during this time period to new positions opened during the current session, and to existing open positions carried forward from a prior session.

Initial Margin
The exchange Initial Margin requirement is effective between the 3:45 PM Intraday Margin end time and the CME session end fifteen minutes later at 4:00 PM, and is applicable to an open position if there is a trade during the current session in the same futures product as the open position.

When the open position during this time period is an existing position carried forward from a prior session, and there was no trade in the same futures product during the current session, then Initial Margin does not apply. Instead, Maintenance Margin applies.

Maintenance Margin
The exchange Maintenance Margin requirement is effective between the 3:45 PM Intraday Margin end time and the CME session end fifteen minutes later at 4:00 PM, and is applicable only to an existing open position carried forward from a prior session, and only if there is no trade in that same futures product during the current session.

When the open position during this time period is an existing position carried forward from a prior session, and there was a trade in the same futures product during the current session, then Maintenance Margin does not apply. Instead, Initial Margin applies.

Exceptions
The exchange or broker may change margin requirements at any time, without notice. Exceptional margin changes are typically due to volatile market conditions, anticipated or actual, and the broker determining that higher margin is required for additional protection. At NinjaTrader, notice of exceptional margin changes are posted at the Order Desk Updates web page:

https://ninjatrader.com/blog/order-desk-updates/

Additional reference:

https://ninjatrader.com/Margins-Position-Management

https://ninjatrader.com/blog/futures...hange-margins/
https://ninjatrader.com/PDF/ninjatra...ct_details.pdf

[Mokaru Zen]

Advice from Ninjatrader Brokerage is that: (So only if your broker is Ninjatrader Brokerage)

Intraday trading hours are between 5pm CT (market open) to 3:45pm CT (15 min before market close @4:00pm CT). Initial margin is required at 3:45pm CT.

That is a good definition, and it settles my queries. It make sense as prior to close volatility may increase tremendously.

Other brokerage may have different Initial Margin cut in time. And for holiday trading hours Initial Margin cut in time do check with your broker.

Cheers!

[bltdavid]

Please keep the forum pleasant and refrain from name calling or negative comments.

What?
Where did you get that from?

Seems like you're reading way too much into my comments, if you have
perceived any name calling or negative comments ... ah, wait, I see.

You mean those other comments from almost 2 years ago?

A little late ... I think.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello All,

Please keep the forum pleasant and refrain from name calling or negative comments.

For any information about margin requirements, please direct these inquiries to your broker.

[Mokaru Zen]

Thanks bltdavid for the information and explanation. I just wish those weblinks give examples. I can of course test out using Micro-Emini during overnight session and see whether Ninjatrader Margin page showing deduction by $50 or by initial margin. I still need the confirmation from Ninja Support. As I want to trade E-mini eventually.

[bltdavid]

I think your confusion lies in that the terms 'overnight margin' and 'overnight session' are not related.

The 'overnight margin' (quoted on a per instrument basis) is the amount that must be in your account
to hold one contract of that instrument past the close of that instrument's market. (Btw, I've always
assumed that 'overnight margin' is more of a nickname, and the real term being 'initial margin'. Indeed,
cmegroup.com does not define 'overnight margin'.)

The 'overnight session' is associated with the ETH (Electronic Trading Hours) session.

Note carefully:
Overnight margin (er, I mean, initial margin) is not defined in terms of the overnight session.

[bltdavid]

Can you confirm the above statement?

Start by devouring everything here and here.

Good info here, too.

I'll let NT Support handle your specific questions.

[Mokaru Zen]

Who is your broker?

Overnight margin is only needed if you hold a position through the one hour window when no trading occurs.

When trading resumes after the one hour break, you will be back to day trading margin rules.

Hello NinjaTraderSupport.

Can you confirm the above statement?

I would like to Day Trade in the afternoon in Asia time, that is during overnight session USA time. Obviously it is not my sleeping time. I open and close trade within that session. So in this case only Day Trading Margin applies?

I think it is quite reasonable, the volatility is less during overnight session (I am not saying spike during Asia time will not happen) and we are trading, not sleeping.

Please confirm.

Thank you.
Mokaru

[marcus2300]

collier.a15

Found the pdf

https://ninjatrader.com/Margins-Position-Management

For holding overnight MES , you will need to post Initial Margin $1320 + Maintenance Margin $1200 per contract,

For you, the clever jack ass: try to read and understand correctly. You are apparently not as clever as you think.

• Initial Margin $1320 is margin to open a position of 1 contract MES.
• Maintenance Margin $1200 per contract is the minimum margin you should have to avoid a margin call.
• So if your position is losing 24 points per contract MES, you should add money on your account.

Try to stay polite or nobody will answer your questions anymore.

[bltdavid]

Why cant any of you clever jack asses answer the question simply ?

Maybe because,
The OP is asking a generic brokerage question on a platform support forum.
The OP is asked to identify his broker, OP never responds further.
When it is suggested OP ask his broker specifically, OP never responds further.
When it is suggested OP contact NinjaTrader broker directly,
-- OP is given the contact email address
-- OP is given the contact phone number
-- OP is given the contact web site

You do know that margins are a broker-specific thing.
You do know that margins are not a static thing, they can and do change.

If we assume that OP's broker was NinjaTrader Brokerage (a fair assumption)
then it is also fair to assume OP's inquiry was satisfied by NT support's answer,
which suggested 3 specific ways to directly contact them.

But just because I was curious, I spent just a couple of minutes ...
After looking around NinjaTrader.com "Futures Broker" webpage, I found this,

https://ninjatrader.com/PDF/ninjatrader_futures_contract_details.pdf

which as of May 9th shows the same figures you provided

But at the top of that pdf, it says, 'During periods of high volatility, please visit
Order Desk Updates for current margin levels', which can provide additional
information. Obviously, traders who use NTB should bookmark that webpage
and consult it regularly, esp during this period of unprecedented volatility caused
by the pandemic.

That is why other clever folks did not provide an exact answer, because the
correct and appropriate answer is to directly contact your broker, as was
the suggestion provided by NT support.

If your specific broker (which OP never identified) has a webpage with the exact
margin figures, then great. But not all brokers do that.

[matthewmcreadie]

collier.a15

Found the pdf

https://ninjatrader.com/Margins-Position-Management

For holding overnight MES , you will need to post Initial Margin $1320 + Maintenance Margin $1200 per contract,

[matthewmcreadie]

Why cant any of you clever jack asses answer the question simply ?

He asked what is the overnight margin req. for 1 micro , since it is not on the website, i could not find the info myself

Ninjatrader Team, would you like to provide the updated info since mciros came online ? I know you have a link to a pdf with everything

Because i would like to know too

Regards

[marcus2300]

My personal experience is that day trading margins are only a good idea if you watch your screen from open till close of the trade.
If you would like to keep an open position while you are sleeping it is a bad idea to trade on daytrade margins.
Trading micros on 50$ margin is insane. Especially with the actual volatility. You will wipe out your account in 1 trade if a 10 points move against you happens. We have the last month 100 point moves in less than 15 minutes. Because of the volatility you have to put your stop far away or you are already stopped out in the first minute you open a trade.
Many brokers don't give you that 50$ margin, you first have to proof you can control the risk by trading with a higher margin.

I am daytrading for over 2 decades and I have seen a lot of wipe outs from "traders". Not only wipe outs of their trading account, but also total wipe outs (losing everything including their house and their partner).

The fact that you have difficulties determing overnight margin costs for products confirms to me that you are far away from being a professional.

This is what I wanted to explain:
Today market moved between 7:00 and 7:24. If you use a $50 margin for trading MES (micro E mini) this is how it would look if you would be short:



Within 1 minute a loss of 77.50% of your account
Within 3 minutes total wipe out and you should still pay $182.50 to get out of debt.
After 24 minutes you would lose 16 times the $50 margin. You should still pay $755 per contract to get out of debt.

If you would be long you would make a lot of money. But don't forget that over 90% of daytraders seem to lose their money, so how big is the posibility that you would be long?

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello collier.a15,

Welcome to the NinjaTrader forums!

I recommend discussing margin requirements with your broker.

If you were wanting to contact the NinjaTrader Brokerage, they can be reached at brokeragesupport [at] ninjatrader [dot] com, or 1.800.496.1683.

https://ninjatrader.com/ContactUs