how to create my base indicator without showing in indicators list

[bltdavid]

In response to your post # 19 when we say "not supported" that is because inheritance is not documented and we are aware of certain limitations specifically for indicators and strategies. The code that NinjaTrader uses as wrappers for caching, cloning, and generating overload parameters as well as how NinjaTrader generates instances of strategies for optimizations are not able to properly handle inheritance. I suspect that using inheritance with your own custom add-on window or items in the add-on class would work as expected, although these items are still undocumented in the NinjaTrader help guide - NinjaTrader-specific support is limited when it comes to inheritance as this is a broader C# concept and we do not offer hands-on C# education services. We do know that we are not able to offer support regarding inheritance specifically with indicators and strategies due to the reasons I mentioned. We know there would be an issue when attempting to do this, which is why it is officially not supported. Our development team does have it under consideration and our team is tracking demand.

Ok, my bad, this was a decent attempt at explaining the specific case
related to abstract base classes.

Let's poke some holes in it.

because inheritance is not documented

This is just obfuscation.

We're not talking about inheritance, nor do we really need to.

Why?
Because you don't give much thought to discussing inheritance when
supporting partial classes -- I know, you're right, not much is needed.

Ok, but my point is, let's be consistent.

I suggest:
NT should not give much background on inheritance when discussing
abstract base classes. Understandably, abstract base classes are a
much better example of inheritance. But my point is, so what if they're
'not documented' -- just give a couple of links to 3rd-party educational
websites and be done with it. Support folks do this often enough
already -- so be consistent -- just follow the same policy for abstract
base classes. If someone has a question about inheritance, point
them towards other educational resources on the web.

I mean, come on ...
This 'inheritance is not documented' is not much of a blocker, and kind of
a dumb reason. That is, the entire C# language is 'not documented' by
NinjaTrader, but that doesn't stop NinjaTrader from using Dispatchers,
or virtual methods, or delegates, or LINQ, or a whole host of other
relatively advanced features which are a fundamental part of the C#
language -- and therefore should not require 'documentation' from the
Support staff, or anybody else.

... we are aware of certain limitations specifically for indicators and strategies. The code that NinjaTrader uses as wrappers for caching, cloning, and generating overload parameters ...

This generated wrapper code is for indicators only, and has nothing to
do with Strategies, or AddOns. Ok, we can agree on that.

Nevertheless, this issue is moot.

Support folks have already made the suggestion to move any partial
classes to the AddOns folder -- precisely to avoid issues related to
the generated code which is only ever added for Indicators.

So, this same workaround can be promoted by Support when
someone asks about abstract base classes.

Problem solved.

... we are aware of certain limitations specifically for indicators and strategies. ... [such as] how NinjaTrader generates instances of strategies for optimizations are not able to properly handle inheritance

How do you know this?
Do you have an example?

I kinda doubt this is even possible.

Using an abstract base class does not change how objects
are instantiated. C# itself would be broken if Strategy objects
were not properly able to handle inheritance.

Just because my Strategy inherits from one or more abstract
base classes, as long as the lowest abstract base class is
inheriting from Strategy, what is the issue? The inheritance
hierarchy is always properly maintained, otherwise the C#
language itself is broken.

NT's reasoning on this is pure crap, er, I mean, just another
attempt at obfuscation. A red herring.

Please provide an example of the inheritance problems you
encountered during strategy optimizations.

NinjaTrader-specific support is limited when it comes to inheritance as this is a broader C# concept and we do not offer hands-on C# education services.

Understood, but partial classes are also a broader C# concept,
and the partial class concept is 'supported'. Barely.

I know Support folks are not there for C# education -- but plenty
of times Support will gently sidestep the issue of education by
providing links to 3rd party C# language education resources.

Ok, so, do that for inheritance. Do that for abstract base classes.
Support is not lazy, you guys graciously help others learn C# by
providing such links already.

My point is: You've already established precedent for providing
educational links, so you can't now reply upon the lack of an
in-house educational resource and call it a barrier for support
of the C# language feature called abstract base classes.

So, what's the problem?
Find some good 3rd-party links, have them at the ready, just
like you do for other aspects of the C# language.

My point is: there is no problem.
This is a another red herring.

We know there would be an issue when attempting to do this, which is why it is officially not supported.

Without example code, I think this is baloney.
Until proven otherwise, it is baloney.

I'll say it again:
The C# language supports abstract bases classes just fine.
The NinjaScript framework supports abstract bases classes just fine.

An abstract base class 'extends' the inheritance hierarchy, which is
always maintained correctly, even during Strategy optimizations --
otherwise, the C# language itself is broken. And I do not believe
Support's wild accusations that inheritance in C# is broken.

My final summary is this:
In the world of providing support examples and advice, there is
absolutely no reason why abstract base classes should not enjoy
equal footing with partial classes.

-=o=-

Just my 2˘.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

bltdavid on target! QuantKey_Bruce in the right direction.

The "NinjaScript Editor" is really just the Actipro Syntax Editor. This post has more to say on the matter, as well as links to even more to say on the matter!

Summary: it's old, it's bug-ridden, it has needed to be brought up to the latest version for years.

And while we're at it, so do C# and .NET (yes, that old chestnut, again!). Also, recognise that SharpDX is no longer supported, as of almost exactly 4 years ago, to be precise; but there are alternatives.

The Desktop platform wisely incorporates some very useful third-party products that reduce the need for NinjaTrader to "re-invent the wheel". Sadly though, NinjaTrader has not kept those products up-to-date, and seems unwilling to do that, despite a cacophony of requests from its often highly-knowledgeable user community. This means, as I have spoken of in detail elsewhere (see C#/.NET post linked above), that the platform is using many third-party products that have been obsolete for years, even though up-to-date versions (or good, compatible alternatives) exist for them.

Waaaaaay past time to rectify the situation!

Thanks.

jeronymite Great reminders.

Actipro syntax editor looks like it is at least four major versions behind comparing what's installed in 8.1 and what's on their website. This really should be brought current if it's to be the desktop editor.

It could be a heavy lift to swap out SharpDX and might have to be the sort of thing that's done in "NinjaTrader 9" whatever it may be called if it breaks a good amount of existing NinjaScript.

C#.NET could probably be brought up without as much drama because it's backward compatible.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello bltdavid,

there is
absolutely no reason why abstract base classes should not enjoy
equal footing with partial classes.

As there are known issues, our team does not support this at this time. We are happy to submit a feature request for support for abstract classes to be supported in future versions.

See this forum thread where this has already been discussed.

https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/ninjatrader-8/indicator-development/1241738-managing-indicator-addon-instances-within-another-indicator?p=1242920#post1242920

[ntbone]

I have successfully

• Hidden indicators from the list
• Created base classes for indicators to derive from.

See this post here https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/...27#post1243127