NT Version (8.1.2.0) import error with a protected compiled assembly

[QuantKey_Bruce]

... it is not possible for me to export a protected compiled assembly in NT 8.1.2.1 and import it in version 8.1.1.7 without errors.

Yes - exactly.

[NinjaTrader_BrandonH]

Hello sidlercom80,

Thanks for your notes.

Did you follow the steps in post # 89 to import the assembly attached in post # 89 into a clean environment on both NT 8.1.2.1 and 8.1.1.7?

If so, did you encounter any errors when importing the assembly attached in post # 89?

If you did encounter an error, what version of NinjaTrader did the error occur on and what exactly did the error state?

I will inform the Development team of the error you got when testing the script they shared so they may look into this matter further.

If you did not follow the steps in post # 89, please follow those steps and report your results.

Further, I will ask the Development team for a demonstration video showing how that assembly was exported.

[jeronymite]

Abundant thanks and credit to QuantKey_Bruce and others for subjecting themselves to the torture of trying to understand what is happening with NinjaTrader Desktop 8.1.2.1 vs 8.1.x.x and 8.0.x.x. (The concept of backwards compatibility seems entirely foreign to NinjaTrader.)

The most obvious point that comes out of this is that it seems that the NinjaTrader Development and QA processes (if they exist) for designing/modifying/testing/releasing NinjaTrader Desktop are "broken"! No commercial product that has a multitude of paid-up customers, and particularly one that facilitates trading financial markets, should ever have such a vast litany of critical errors, and in almost every release!

What QuantKey_Bruce and others are doing is nothing less than a fraction of what the Development and QA teams in NinjaTrader should be doing as part of their professional responsibilities and due diligence before a new version is released. The customer base seems to be becoming a large beta test group! This type of testing and reporting of it by external professionals such as QuantKey_Bruce and others should never be needed!

This displays a complete lack of professional Service Management standards and a large degree of management failure to address this with utmost priority. It reflects a level of disregard for the customer base that beggars belief.

The fact that external professional developers so regularly find critical bugs (that's what they are!) in released products is an appalling indictment on the way the software is managed. Add to that the fact that management seems to have zero interest in being more transparent and engaged with the customer base, and the overall impression becomes one of a company in crisis, even if NinjaTrader itself does not see that!

I have written extensively in https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/...27#post1238027 about how crucial good IT Service Management is. Having spent decades in Software Engineering and IT Service Management with global IT providers, I can say with confidence that NinjaTrader displays all the hallmarks of disdain for good IT Service Management (ITSM) practices. How regrettable for a company that has such potentially "best-in-class" technology to squander that potential market advantage so regularly for want of a well-designed, sensible, workable, well-implemented Service Management framework, and to doggedly refuse to engage more openly with its customers, especially its third-party vendors.

All these issues, along with the fact that there seems to be no desire to provide any type of roadmap for its ongoing activities (even 12 months out would be helpful), it's clear that commercial reliance on NinjaTrader as an underpinning product for external commercial developers is becoming more problematic. Forex support is a prime example of "after the fact" awareness of changes, and ongoing deprecation that speaks of a desire to eventually make it almost impossible to trade Forex using NinjaTrader. I have spoken at length about that in https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/...55#post1278255.

All in all, confidence in NinjaTrader Desktop, and in NinjaTrader Management to make it the robust, reliable, truly "best-in-class" product it could be, is significantly eroded with every release with all the issues they bring.

Can this all be "fixed"? I believe so ... but not without a major revision of thinking, attitudes, practice and management within the company. Will that happen? ... ... On current indications, it seems ever less likely.

Thanks.

[rare312]

it is not possible for me to export a protected compiled assembly in NT 8.1.2.1 and import it in version 8.1.7.1 without errors.

So guys, as it usually happens.. we just need to try. And everything is possible.
You need to add AgileDotNetRT64Pro.dll and AgileDotNetRTPro.dll to your zip. (ver 6.9.1.2)
And everything works with no errors.

Without dll's I got:


After adding them:


My NT8 8.1.1.7 was able to run it

PS. It doesn't work with NT 8.0.28.0.
The only way to push it to work was by replacing this 2 dll's in C:\Program Files\NinjaTrader 8\bin

[rare312]

Please report back if you are able to successfully import the attached assembly after following the steps above.

Yes. Your file works with NT 8.1.1.7 with no issues.
But that's not a point. You guys used full version of Agile.
None of the files protected with Agile for NT8 (6.9.1.2) works for previous NT8. I mean, without replacing/adding dll's.
So it looks like Agile should be able to fix it.

[sidlercom80]

Yes. Your file works with NT 8.1.1.7 with no issues.
But that's not a point. You guys used the full version of Agile.
None of the files protected with Agile for NT8 (6.9.1.2) works for previous NT8. I mean, without replacing/adding dll's.
So it looks like Agile should be able to fix it.

Hi rare312 Thank you for your testing, that should actually be the job of the support and development team!

"But that's not a point. You guys used the full version of Agile."
This was already mentioned in post 58 by QuantKey_Bruce and mentioned as a possible cause. The NT support seems to have overlooked this, like so many things, because otherwise we wouldn't already be at post 96 now.

There are other major problems with this new version 8.1.2.* I certainly won't update to the new crap until everything is fixed.
​

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello Community,

Below is a link to a video of exporting with Agile 6.9.1.2 and NinjaTrader 8.1.2.1, and then importing into 8.1.1.7 without any issues.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gid...w?usp=drivesdk


rare312,
"But that's not a point. You guys used full version of Agile.
None of the files protected with Agile for NT8 (6.9.1.2) works for previous NT8. I mean, without replacing/adding dll's."

You must use the full version of Agile. The trial version is going to eventually run out and scripts exported with the trial will not work.

I have demonstrated in the video linked above that a strategy exported with Agile 6.9.1.2 with NinjaTrader 8.1.2.1 imports and enables in NinjaTrader 8.1.1.7.

[rare312]

Hello Community,

Below is a link to a video of exporting with Agile 6.9.1.2 and NinjaTrader 8.1.2.1, and then importing into 8.1.1.7 without any issues.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gid...w?usp=drivesdk


rare312,
"But that's not a point. You guys used full version of Agile.
None of the files protected with Agile for NT8 (6.9.1.2) works for previous NT8. I mean, without replacing/adding dll's."

You must use the full version of Agile. The trial version is going to eventually run out and scripts exported with the trial will not work.

I have demonstrated in the video linked above that a strategy exported with Agile 6.9.1.2 with NinjaTrader 8.1.2.1 imports and enables in NinjaTrader 8.1.1.7.

Hi Chelsea.
I didn't talk about trial agile versions.
I was talking about the difference between Full Agile protector VS Agile for NT8
So it looks like you did use Full version though vendors mostly use Agile for NT8. It's cheaper.

PS. You should be aware there is a limited version of Agile, aren't you?
It is created specifically to protect NT8 assemblies only.

[sidlercom80]

Hello Community,

Below is a link to a video of exporting with Agile 6.9.1.2 and NinjaTrader 8.1.2.1, and then importing into 8.1.1.7 without any issues.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gid...w?usp=drivesdk


rare312,
"But that's not a point. You guys used full version of Agile.
None of the files protected with Agile for NT8 (6.9.1.2) works for previous NT8. I mean, without replacing/adding dll's.​"

You must use the full version of Agile. The trial version is going to eventually run out and scripts exported with the trial will not work.

I have demonstrated in the video linked above that a strategy exported with Agile 6.9.1.2 with NinjaTrader 8.1.2.1 imports and enables in NinjaTrader 8.1.1.7.

Hi NinjaTrader_ChelseaB Thank you for the video, unfortunately it doesn't prove anything.
It seems to me that all of you from NT either don't want to understand it, or don't understand it. You are using the commercial version of agile in your video and NOT the NinjaTrader Edition ($120). Please make a video with the Ninjatrader Edition version of agile, only then will I believe you that it works.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

I had this exchange with SecureTeam directly (bear in mind for context here, I have both a full version and several NT versions, so I'm discussing with them how each can be used):

Bruce: Could you please clarify - are you saying that this one (the "full version") can protect NT assemblies both before and after 8.1.2.0 but the special reduced-price NT-specific one 6.9 can only protect NT 8.1.2.0 forward and to be compatible with 8.1.1.7 backward we would have to use 6.6?

SecureTeam: That is correct.

This is what led me to post number 58 in this thread, and to seek clarification from NinjaTrader in this thread.

[sidlercom80]

I had this exchange with SecureTeam directly (bear in mind for context here, I have both a full version and several NT versions, so I'm discussing with them how each can be used):

Bruce: Could you please clarify - are you saying that this one (the "full version") can protect NT assemblies both before and after 8.1.2.0 but the special reduced-price NT-specific one 6.9 can only protect NT 8.1.2.0 forward and to be compatible with 8.1.1.7 backward we would have to use 6.6?

SecureTeam: That is correct.

This is what led me to post number 58 in this thread, and to seek clarification from NinjaTrader in this thread.

What kind of joke is that? Become $20 more expensive ($100 to $120) and provide less supply, which is exactly what I will do in the future ;-)
Thanks Bruce for the clarification. I'm assuming that this won't change in the future, what do you think, will there be an agile update?

[QuantKey_Bruce]

I think they will probably fix it. There's some sort of mistake or miscommunication here.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

I was expressing my surprise, to SecureTeam, that they seemed in my interaction with them earlier to be implying but not stating that for the ~$1200 fee they are forward and backward compatible, but for the ~$120 fee they are not. I have not fully tested every combination because I thought that did not sound right and I was waiting for it to get sorted out. I tried to get them to be explicit and state clearly if that was the case, and seemingly, they did confirm that was the case. Now, whether that was intended or is just how it sort of ended up because they ran out of time and released it to resolve a reported issue, I couldn't say. I'm hopeful they will fix this.

Certainly, what is needed, is a version of Agile.NET with a "for NinjaTrader" reduced price license, that, when used with the latest NinjaTrader, generates protected assemblies that work on NT 8.1.2.x, on NT 8.1.1.x, and on 8.0.x. Right now, we have that if we use Agile.NET 6.6 together with NinjaTrader 8.1.1.7. But, if we update to NinjaTrader 8.1.2.1, we are forced to update to Agile 6.9.1.2, and once we do that, the resulting assemblies no longer seem to run on NT 8.1.1.7 (if we use the "for NinjaTrader" license). That's the part I'm trying to get clarified and resolved.

What seems to be happening, from what I can see, is that NinjaTrader development, like me, is using the "full" version of Agile.NET, and so they're not seeing the problem that exists when using the "for NinjaTrader" reduced-price version. Since I have both versions, I can test the NT version also, and reported the problem, but when NinjaTrader is trying to confirm it, they're still re-testing on the more expensive "full" one. And, per SecureTeam's direct statement to me, unless we are miscommunicating somehow, they are saying the NT one is NOT back compatible, while the "full" one is, which is why NinjaTrader's development team thinks it's all working fine.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

This has been carefully re-tested today and confirmed - the NinjaTrader Edition is not backward compatible from 8.1.2.1 to 8.1.1.7, but the Commercial Edition is. We're trying to sort this out. It is my hope that SecureTeam will fix this.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

I think, finally, we are all in agreement now about what the issue is and there's no longer such ambiguity. The exact issue is that Agile.NET 6.9.1.2 generates protected assemblies on NT 8.1.2.1 that don't work on NT 8.1.1.7 and below, but only if you are using NinjaTrader Edition of Agile.NET.

Today, I repeated the following steps to confirm this:

(1) I completely reinstalled Windows 11 Pro from bare metal. Installed all Windows Updates and confirmed activated.
(2) Switched to a local account. Uninstalled OneDrive.
(3) Installed Chrome, TeamViewer, Agile.NET NinjaTrader Edition 6.9.1.2, and NinjaTrader 8.1.2.1, downloading each straight from the websites.
(4) In NinjaScript Editor, opened @SMA and saved as MySMA.
(5) Exported as a protected assembly.
(6) On a separate machine running NT 8.1.1.7, imported the assembly. Error message now when entering indicator list just like in forum issue:
"Unable to create instance of NinjaScript 'NinjaTrader.NinjaScript.Indicators.MySMA'. Most likely either the implementation no longer exists, there is no default constructor defined, the default constructor does not work correctly, or the 'OnStateChange' implementation for State=SetDefaults is flawed. The type initializer for '<Module>' threw an exception."

This is not true for Commercial Edition of Agile.NET. And, the Commercial Edition and NinjaTrader Edition setups appear to be binary identical. It's purely a licensing question. This is being taken up with SecureTeam.