Trying to avoid NT8 crashes

[sledge]

So when you say your virtual machine is crashing, that's what you mean by windows is crashing?

Or does the entire machine that is hosting the VM crash too?

[manugarc]

Hi reach4thelasers,

I would agree with you, but most of my W7s are virtual machines, so we have to discard that option.

Anyway, there's no need to focus on W7 crashes as I said before; 70% of the times NT8 crashes without killing Windows, so I'm not interested in discussing whether those cases are related to NT8 crashes (Until this release each and every crash was preceded by a registered NT8 non-handled exception, so for me it's obvious).

And there's no other software until now that causes the same effects on my Windows 7 machines, so we could try to find strange causes to justify it's not because of NT8, but sounds quite absurd.

[reach4thelasers]

What version of Windows are you using manugarc? Microsoft Windows has had "Process Isolation" implemented since Windows XP - so around 15 years now. Therefore its not possible for any one process to crash the whole operating system. And its definitely not possible for a .NET app like Ninjatrader which runs in a Managed Runtime to do so.

Ninjatrader is a resource hog (as are all trading platforms), its possible your system is overheating. Run a Vacuum cleaner hose over all the vents on your laptop. Seriously I was going mad with my top-spec dell XPS laptop throttling down to 1GHz all the time and becoming painfully slow, Turned out the vents were clogged with dust and it couldn't keep cool so was throttling down to prevent overheating. Laptops without such throttling capability may just crash!! Reason I mention it is that Hardware fault is pretty much the only thing that could totally crash the OS aside from messing with system files and such.

[manugarc]

We need to de-tangle a complex problem to make sense of it:

- I want to treat the cases where NinjaTrader crashes and we have an exception in the trace file separately then the cases where the windows box itself crashes.

On the exception related to 'OnRender' with Access Violations' and 'External Component has thrown an exception' errors generated in 'OnRender' using drawing tools:

- I so far have heard all good things from all testers and initial release. This is my first report of 'issue' in this area, however the 'issue' in your report today I want to treat separately since it doesn't fit the profile.
- We did NOT comment out any exception code
- Development team spend days for R7 reviewing code. We felt pretty good we 'got the problem' in R7 but that needs to be seen in the field still.
- There is one possibility that one of the fixes involved updating DrawingTool code, we're trying to understand that impact of that change and third party NinjaScript installed as an Assembly which has its own copy of drawing tools. Since in theory it did not get the 'fixes', I'm trying to understand that scenario now and may be a scenario where we need to ask any user distributing code via an assembly to re-export with R7. I'm not sure if this issue is effecting you or not but its the first rock I would try to turn.

On the case where the windows machine crashes:
Can you please contact me at platformsupport at ninjatrader dot com and reference this forum post. Please check the windows event viewer for the windows crash and send a screenshot or details of that crash so I could review. If you need help doing that let me know.

Ok, I'm testing it again, this time with W7 logging files activated, and will tell you what's on them after crashing.

Regarding to comment out the exceptions messages I'm quite sure some developer has done that, since it's too suspect that now I get the same exception-scenario but without those messages, though I can't ensure it's like this.

[NinjaTrader_Brett]

We need to de-tangle a complex problem to make sense of it:

- I want to treat the cases where NinjaTrader crashes and we have an exception in the trace file separately then the cases where the windows box itself crashes.

On the exception related to 'OnRender' with Access Violations' and 'External Component has thrown an exception' errors generated in 'OnRender' using drawing tools:

- I so far have heard all good things from all testers and initial release. This is my first report of 'issue' in this area, however the 'issue' in your report today I want to treat separately since it doesn't fit the profile.
- We did NOT comment out any exception code
- Development team spend days for R7 reviewing code. We felt pretty good we 'got the problem' in R7 but that needs to be seen in the field still.
- There is one possibility that one of the fixes involved updating DrawingTool code, we're trying to understand that impact of that change and third party NinjaScript installed as an Assembly which has its own copy of drawing tools. Since in theory it did not get the 'fixes', I'm trying to understand that scenario now and may be a scenario where we need to ask any user distributing code via an assembly to re-export with R7. I'm not sure if this issue is effecting you or not but its the first rock I would try to turn.

On the case where the windows machine crashes:
Can you please contact me at platformsupport at ninjatrader dot com and reference this forum post. Please check the windows event viewer for the windows crash and send a screenshot or details of that crash so I could review. If you need help doing that let me know.

[manugarc]

Hi Brett,

IMHO (as a computer-science engineer), with me having a Windows updated, having them on several machines, that never ever crashed before NT8, with almost just NT8 installed, that are just running NT8, that until this new version its crashes were exactly at the same second that NT8 registered an exception and crashed (not in this version since this versions doesn't register them apparently), after a number of months with NT8 crashing every few hours, with NT8 generating exceptions so frecuently, and that even now, NT8 keeps on crashing even when W7 doesn't, I sincerely think that trying to insinuate that the problem is on W7 side is just out of place.

That's the way some threads are closed, but I think that given the magnitude of this problem with NT8 exceptions you guys better try to ask the development team to double check their code, since this is not normal at all, and the last thing the team should have done is to comment the exception messages, since all that does is to make much more difficult for us to tell you what's failling. I have no idea who that people are, but with every new version I have less hopes that they will be able to solve this.

Please don't try to do that; if needed, just ignore the cases where W7 dies along with NT8 and focus in the cases it doesn't...

EDIT: OF COURSE W7 shouldn't crash because of any program exception. That shows you how serious is the problem NT8 has.

[NinjaTrader_Brett]

This sounds different, considering your comment of 'even windows crashed'. Windows typically should not become unstable due to NinjaTrader running on the system. Considering you also have no message in log/trace I have a feeling its not actually NinjaTrader crashing but something higher up.

Mind taking a look at your windows event log and checking for windows log events around the time of the crash. If you need help doing that we can have one of our tech support reps schedule a call to remotely log in and take a look, contact us at platformsupport at ninjatrader dot com and reference this forum post.

[manugarc]

We solved several rendering exceptions and scenarios with heavy use of drawing objects with 8.0.7.0. We got that build out to a bunch of advanced testers(thank you) and those testers reported good results. Obviously we have just released 8.0.7.0 today so we will be closely monitoring reports to see if we got all the outstanding issues or we still have 1 or 2 corner cases we need to make sure gets resolved, time will tell.

We still have one known scenario pending which was related to fast changing instruments on a chart with fairly heavy rendering via instrument linked market analyzer that did not make it into 8.0.7.0. Since we wanted a bit more time to test the resolution internally before we released it.

Hi Brett, Jim,

I'm afraid nothing has changed regarding to crashes; I turned it on on Thursday and got a crash on Friday; yesterday I turned it on again after markets opened yesterday and got another crash (this time even Windows crashed along with NT8) after just 3 hours running (too bad).

The only difference I see is that now I don't have any message on the log or trace files, so now I don't know and so I can't tell you why it crashes.

I don't interact with it; I just leave it running and turn off monitor, so it can't be because of the changing instruments scenario, so I guess it's still related to OnRender(), but now I can't be sure.

[tradesmart]

Can someone please advise how I roll back to 6.1?

http://ninjatrader.com/PlatformDirect

The download screen includes a link below the button for "Prior Release 8.0.6.1"

[Eric M.]

Hello Brett and Jim,

Thank you for the latest release - I've seen a big improvement with my multi-monitor workspace !!
I'm a heavy user of drawing objects.
With previous builds I had memory usage between 930,000 and 1,200,000.

After installing Build 8.0.7.0, the memory usage has dropped down to 575,000.

I will continue to monitor over the coming days but so far all I can say is "Job well done" !!
Many thanks !!

Eric

[GeorgeW]

My initial 2 days experience of NT8 version 7 is that it is somewhat worse than 8.0.6.1. My starting RAM for the workspace I am using is around 800,000, which is about 150,000 up on 6.1, and after reloading indicators several times or changing time periods, RAM is up to over 1,150,000, which eventually leads to a slowing down and sometimes black screen when trying to do anything.

Can someone please advise how I roll back to 6.1?

Thank you.

[manugarc]

We solved several rendering exceptions and scenarios with heavy use of drawing objects with 8.0.7.0. We got that build out to a bunch of advanced testers(thank you) and those testers reported good results. Obviously we have just released 8.0.7.0 today so we will be closely monitoring reports to see if we got all the outstanding issues or we still have 1 or 2 corner cases we need to make sure gets resolved, time will tell.

We still have one known scenario pending which was related to fast changing instruments on a chart with fairly heavy rendering via instrument linked market analyzer that did not make it into 8.0.7.0. Since we wanted a bit more time to test the resolution internally before we released it.

Hello Brett, Jim,

Sounds good; I'll test it during the rest of the week and I'll tell you about the results. (This time I'm going to contain my enthusiasm until I see it doesn't crash, but according to your comments sounds good, since my crashes weren't related with changing instruments on a chart but just with OnRender()).

[NinjaTrader_Jim]

Hello manugarc,

NinjaTrader 8 Release 7 has just gone live and includes several fixes for the various reported OnRender() errors.

The chart deadlocking issue has not yet been resolved for this release as it is still being investigated. (This issue involves switching instruments quickly between linked windows with a large data set.) This issue is still being tracked with ID NTEIGHT-11681.

I think you will be much more satisfied with the stability of 8.0.7 over 8.0.6.1. I can't get the platform to crash using reach4thelaser's BollingerRainbowCrasher indicator and I don't think you will have much issue drawing lines with this release.

Here is a link to Brandon's post announcing Release 7: http://ninjatrader.com/support/forum...587#post509587

[NinjaTrader_Brett]

We solved several rendering exceptions and scenarios with heavy use of drawing objects with 8.0.7.0. We got that build out to a bunch of advanced testers(thank you) and those testers reported good results. Obviously we have just released 8.0.7.0 today so we will be closely monitoring reports to see if we got all the outstanding issues or we still have 1 or 2 corner cases we need to make sure gets resolved, time will tell.

We still have one known scenario pending which was related to fast changing instruments on a chart with fairly heavy rendering via instrument linked market analyzer that did not make it into 8.0.7.0. Since we wanted a bit more time to test the resolution internally before we released it.

[manugarc]

Hi Jim,

Do yo have any information about the progress with the crashes?

Thanks in advance.