8.1.3 & 4 introduced problem

[brucerobinson]

Hello,
I have used Logitech Gaming Software with NinjaTrader since NT7. LGS uses LUAScript. I use it to move the mouse to Workspace locations, and to run macros.
It has worked flawlessly up to and including v8.0.28
I installed v8.1.4 - running Ninjatrader stops the LUAScript working (works after closing Ninja)
Downgrade v8.1.4 to v8.1.3 - same problem. Running Ninjatrader stops LUAScript working. Close Ninja, LUA works (irrespective of any other applications running, or not - it is only running NinjaTrading v8.1.3 or later which is resulting in this)
Uninstall v8.1.3 and install v8.0.28 - problem resolved - LUAScript works with NinjaTrader, as it has for all previous versions
(PC re-boots were done between install/uninstalls etc)

So, any ideas - anything changed in v8.1.3 that caused this and any suggestions how to fix?


Kind regards,

Bruce

[NinjaTrader_Clayton]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for the message.

Unfortunately, since this question is about a separate program running outside of NinjaTrader, we do not have any further documentation or information on why it would have stopped working between versions.

LUA is not supported with NinjaTrader at this time.


Please feel free to submit a feature request to add this support in the future:

• Feature Request Form

Please let us know if we may provide any further assistance.

[brucerobinson]

#NinjaTrader_Clayton,
Regrettably, a useless response - as I have come to expect from Support & Development. Point the finger elsewhere.

There is no problem with LUAScript, the problem is introduced by changes made by Development to v8.1.3.

Submit a ‘Feature Request’ for NT to work with LUAScript - pitiful response - LUAScript is not the problem, v8.1.3 changes are. Figure out what changes Ninjatrader made to .28 which have introduced the problem

Just unbelievable arrogance. So here I am stuck on .28 because .1.8 doesn’t work with ‘generic’ software which works with every other application known to mankind and has done so reliably for years. It’s Development’s role to find out which changes and why have caused it to cease working with LUAScript, not the other way round.

Pitiful waste of time, as usual

[NinjaTrader_Clayton]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for the update.

While we understand it is frustrating that your external program is no longer working with the most current version of NinjaTrader, since it is an external factor, there is no way for NinjaTrader to keep it within its considerations if a user doesn't specifically ask for it.

NinjaTrader can only control the things inside of NinjaTrader itself.

• We have no control over what 3rd party add-ons and external programs the user is running alongside NinjaTrader and how NinjaTrader would interact with those.

If no one ever submits a feature request for something like, "Can you make sure NinjaTrader continues working with LUA Scripts in the future", then it wouldn't be on the development team's radar to even be aware of and consider for future updates and features.

So, if you would like the ability to use a LUAScript with NinjaTrader in the future, please submit this as a feature request and then check out the Release Notes any time an update is released.

• Feature Request Form

Please let us know if we may provide any further assistance.

[bltdavid]

Bruce, I'd say your feature request shouldn't focus specifically
on LUA, but stay high level and ask that NT8 work with Logitech
Gaming Software, as well as the newer Logitech G Hub.

Btw, have you tried using G Hub?

[brucerobinson]

#Ninjatrader_Clayton/#bltdavid - thank you, I have submitted a Feature Request. To put it simply, I don't have problems such as these with other software developers' products. End of story.
#bltdavid - helpful as ever. No, I wasn't aware of G-Hub, thanks. Having taken a look, it's not clear if it is compatible with my old G13 Keypad. When I've got a week to spare I might get around to re-installing 8.1.4, installing G-Hub and see if it overcomes the problems NT Development introduced. Or, NT could take ownership and investigate what changes were made in 8.1.3 (this has never occurred from NT7 through NT8.0.28 Releases and Updates) which may be responsible. It is something that has been changed in 8.1.3 that has never been made in NT7 through NT8.0.28

Re: 'frustration' with this. Switching between 8.0.28 and 8.1.4 either direction is not a trivial issue due to switch between License Keys and Dashboard 'Entitlements' (NT's implementation of that switch in and of itself was fraught with failures). In practical terms, doing so means reverting to copying back in License Keys in 8.0.28; several Settings reset to Defaults etc etc in the process. Factor in the additional complications of simultaneous multiple Broker Connections, Data providers, grandfathered Licence etc (Respect #btldavid) each of which 'entitlements' are attached to individual License Keys and it is a can of worms can do without lifting the lid on (and I haven't even elaborated on more detailed complexities which have to be identified and addressed in the process).

Kind regards,

[timko]

#Ninjatrader_Clayton/#bltdavid - thank you, I have submitted a Feature Request. To put it simply, I don't have problems such as these with other software developers' products. End of story.
#bltdavid - helpful as ever. No, I wasn't aware of G-Hub, thanks. Having taken a look, it's not clear if it is compatible with my old G13 Keypad. When I've got a week to spare I might get around to re-installing 8.1.4, installing G-Hub and see if it overcomes the problems NT Development introduced. Or, NT could take ownership and investigate what changes were made in 8.1.3 (this has never occurred from NT7 through NT8.0.28 Releases and Updates) which may be responsible. It is something that has been changed in 8.1.3 that has never been made in NT7 through NT8.0.28

Re: 'frustration' with this. Switching between 8.0.28 and 8.1.4 either direction is not a trivial issue due to switch between License Keys and Dashboard 'Entitlements' (NT's implementation of that switch in and of itself was fraught with failures). In practical terms, doing so means reverting to copying back in License Keys in 8.0.28; several Settings reset to Defaults etc etc in the process. Factor in the additional complications of simultaneous multiple Broker Connections, Data providers, grandfathered Licence etc (Respect #btldavid) each of which 'entitlements' are attached to individual License Keys and it is a can of worms can do without lifting the lid on (and I haven't even elaborated on more detailed complexities which have to be identified and addressed in the process).

Kind regards,

hi bruce,
could you provide a guide on switching between 8.0 and 8.1? I thought the transfer of license from 8.0 to 8.1 is a one way journey. Has the login issue on 8.1 been solved?
thanks in advance!

[brucerobinson]

#timko - happy to help.
Updating 8.0 to 8.1 was straightforward - download installer and run. Create an Account at the Dashboard, Import your Licence Key at the Dashboard, run NT and enter Account Username and password. Done.
I did have one or two issues with an error or two on first run of 8.1.4, and corrupted the current workspace in the process, nothing too catastrophic or problematic to fix, time-consuming

Licensing ‘one way journey’ - it is a one way journey going forward insofar as only the Dashboard login can be used to verify ‘Entitlements’ in v8.1.3+. However, you can still roll back to pre-Dashboard version 8.0.28 and still use License keys.
Importing your License Key into the Dashboard for 8.1.3+ does not obsolete it for use in earlier versions. But you can’t use Licence Keys as an alternative to Dashboard log in with 8.1.3 and later.
If I introduced any confusion over this, hopefully that clarifies. I was referring to using License Keys again after having had to Downgrade to 8.0.28 (which can be done. Importing your Key(s) to the Dashboard does not render them useless in 8.0.28

Login issue on 8.1 solved? Not sure which issue - the much commented-upon newly-introduced mandatory need to physically enter password to run NT, or problems Users encountered with login password verification server fails etc. when introduced.
Login/Server problems seem to have been teething troubles, some related to Apex accounts, but seem to be history now.

On need to enter a password every login, a helpful Forum member #Devatechnologies has come up with an elegant workaround that I briefly tested and found no issues with, worked like a charm. It’s in one of the Threads here on the subject.

Which tipped me to my decision to move to 8.1.4!


Hold this helps
Kind regards,
Bruce

[bltdavid]

Which tipped me to my decision to move to 8.1.4!

Same here.

[backtester831]

Are you saying that having NinjaTrader open is disabling your mouse macros? As in opening NinjaTrader, minimizing it, and then opening something else like a web browser to test your mouse macros, they don't work? Not your NT specific macros, but make a new macro for doing something basic.

Are you sure it's Luascript that NinjaTrader is blocking, or is it the Logitech Gaming Software? Perhaps there's an update for it. Also try to test running lua script from cmd while NinjaTrader is open to remove the mouse software.

[timko]

admin,
pls check why my reply in the following thread is still in PENDING status:

https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1338568-8-1-3-4-introduced-problem

[NinjaTrader_Clayton]

Hello timko,

We wouldn't have any insight on why your forum post is still pending.
- We are not having any trouble posting nor were you on the new post. So, it is possible the page timed out or needs to be refreshed.

You could copy and paste the response to a notepad > Sign out and back into the forum > Then try doing your post again.

[NinjaTrader_Clayton]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for the updates.

I did want to share that we have G-hub noted as a program that can affect NinjaTrader when someone is using it with IQ Feed.

• Since you aren't using IQ Feed, I wasn't sure if this would be relevant or not.

However, I did want to share it in case it somehow is relevant or provides insight to why your external software stopped working with NinjaTrader:

• 

Maybe a port changed or they are fighting over the same one?


Again, I figured I'd share this just in case it somehow ties in. If not, then it could be ignored.


Please let us know if we may provide any further assistance.

[brucerobinson]

#backtester381 - thank you

"Are you saying that having NinjaTrader open is disabling your mouse macros?
(all comments following not being pedantic, clarifying/FTAOD in case it could be material...)
"As in opening NinjaTrader, minimizing it, and then opening something else like a web browser to test your mouse macros, they don't work?"
['As in', yes/almost - I haven't minimised NT]
Not your NT specific macros, but make a new macro for doing something basic.
[Yes]
Are you sure it's Luascript that NinjaTrader is blocking, or is it the Logitech Gaming Software? Perhaps there's an update for it. Also try to test running lua script from cmd while NinjaTrader is open to remove the mouse software.
[After a little further testing:
Run LGS - LGS works normally
Run 8.1.4 - LGS hotkeys don't do anything
Close 8.1.4 - LGS works normally


Re: whether when NT is running it is preventing LGS responding 'at all', or whether it is preventing LUAScript only, I don't know.
I haven't spent the hours to investigate.
I use Gamepad/LGS/LUAScript primarily and predominantly to move the mouse pointer around the Desktop and then instruct a keyboard combo. For example LUAScript MoveMouseVirtual (xx,yy) CtrlC to move mouse on top of a Dom and Center it. No MoveMouseVirtual instructions move the mouse anywhere so I don't know if it is doing CtrlC - for example
Yes, I've since done a simple Test LUAScript to move the mouse -- no Ninja running, works, Ninja running, doesn't work
But it could be that a simple Hotkey CrtlC instruction without LUAScript or MoveMouseVirtual beforehand would, or wouldn't, work - I don't know, didn't do that simple Test.

So, simply put I can't be definitive over whether Ninja is stopping LGS, or, LUAScript MoveMouseVirtual instructions
I can drill down a bit farther process of elimination testing, but:

8.0.28 and all prior Releases back to NT7 have not done this
This is confirmed on two separate PCs - all 8.0.28 and earlier have worked on both PCs for years (so rule out hardware, graphics cards, drivers re: mouse control conflicts)
reason I wondered about LUAScript MoveMouseVirtual being involved is that (keep in mind my layperson level of knowledge) almost all my use of Gampepad/LGS is to manage mouse movement around a lot of screen real estate. So most every Hotkey instruction begins with MouseMouseVirtual. Virtual is a virtual x,y coordinate based on total Windows Desktop area of all monitors. A thought was that NT running may be interfering with this 'virtual' desktop coordinates element thus preventing LUASctipt sending the mouse anywhere. Something along those lines anyhow. But no specialist knowledge on the subject.

But, I come back to......
8.0.28 and all prior Releases back to NT7 have not done this
Run 8.1.4 - Gamepad hotkeys don't do what they should (technically why? dunno)
Close 8.1.4 - Gamepad keys respond normally
Simple



Thanks to all for the input

Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

#Ninjatrader_Clayton
Thank you for your Post re: G-Hub. With respect (genuine - I welcome all assistance & recognise you've noted 'in case' helpful - but for following reasons I believe not relevant):
I'm not using IQFeed (barely know what it is)
I'm not using G-HUB (which seems to have a lot of bells and whistles not relevant to me compared with LGS hence I'd be naturally resistant to change but if works I will)

But being the simple human that I am:
8.0.28 and earlier back to NT7 - NT with LGS never an issue. Numerous versions and updates across NT7&8 platforms
Run 8.1.4 stops LGS whilst NT is running
Close NT, all is well with LGS


for "why your external software stopped working with NinjaTrader:", read 'why Ninja's update 8.1.3/4 and only Ninja's 8.1.3/4 update stops (no other Windows, Microsoft or 3rd party software I have used with previous versions of NT over the last 10 years on 2 PCs has caused this) LGS from working whilst and only whilst NT is running. Clearly the smoking gun is changes to 8.1.3 never previously in earlier versions over which NinjaTrader has control. It may be relevant insofar as could be similar - 'fighting over a port' as you suggest. I haven't a clue. But what I do know is that I have made no changes to LGS, no updates from Logitech, 8.0.28 doesn't cause this with the same LGS and 8.1.3+ does. So if a change of the type you suggest is the culprit (or anything else for that matter), it is a change introduced by Ninja in 8.1.3. So find it, figure out why it is stopping LGS and fix it.

It is a QA issue re: 8.1.3 and should at least be investigated. NinjaTrader can control the things inside Ninja, take ownership of the consequences of changes made and investigate whether action can be taken to remediate them to restore 8.1.3/4's compatibility with 3rd party programme(s).

I did submit this as a 'Feature Request' as you asked. despite it being more likely a bug fix

One of your colleagues in QA has picked this up and contacted me by email so I currently remain hopeful Ninja will find resolution.

Kind regards,

Bruce

[timko]

#timko - happy to help.
Updating 8.0 to 8.1 was straightforward - download installer and run. Create an Account at the Dashboard, Import your Licence Key at the Dashboard, run NT and enter Account Username and password. Done.
I did have one or two issues with an error or two on first run of 8.1.4, and corrupted the current workspace in the process, nothing too catastrophic or problematic to fix, time-consuming

Licensing ‘one way journey’ - it is a one way journey going forward insofar as only the Dashboard login can be used to verify ‘Entitlements’ in v8.1.3+. However, you can still roll back to pre-Dashboard version 8.0.28 and still use License keys.
Importing your License Key into the Dashboard for 8.1.3+ does not obsolete it for use in earlier versions. But you can’t use Licence Keys as an alternative to Dashboard log in with 8.1.3 and later.
If I introduced any confusion over this, hopefully that clarifies. I was referring to using License Keys again after having had to Downgrade to 8.0.28 (which can be done. Importing your Key(s) to the Dashboard does not render them useless in 8.0.28

Login issue on 8.1 solved? Not sure which issue - the much commented-upon newly-introduced mandatory need to physically enter password to run NT, or problems Users encountered with login password verification server fails etc. when introduced.
Login/Server problems seem to have been teething troubles, some related to Apex accounts, but seem to be history now.

On need to enter a password every login, a helpful Forum member #Devatechnologies has come up with an elegant workaround that I briefly tested and found no issues with, worked like a charm. It’s in one of the Threads here on the subject.

Which tipped me to my decision to move to 8.1.4!


Hold this helps
Kind regards,
Bruce

thanks a lot bruce for your kind reply and david for your input!
i have several NT8 licenses, some are multiple-broker, some are single broker. i am still concerned, puzzled by the 8.1 migration process.
1. as far as i've observed, i need to create a ninja account to proceed. does one account hold one licence key only?
2. let's assume one account can hold only one key. does it mean, once a license is migrated, any old backups of 8.0 cannot be run? I perform routine backups and have many backups over the years.
3. when reverting back to 8.0, do I need to delete the account? contact ninja cs?
4. the login issue i referred to was related to security. if an account is compromised, how could i recover it? fire up the old 8.0 backup to regain ownership? creating a new account by using the same license key?
5. are the account passwords for web login and NT 8.1 PC login the same? could they be different? same for the android login as well?
6. once a license key is binded to an account, is the key still be displayed under the account? if so, the key will be stolen once the account is compromised?

when possible, pls shed more light on the mechanism of rolling back to 8.0.

thanks in advance!

*** the above post was blocked by the forum for >2 days, ninja CS told me there was no problem and the guide to repost is useless. now it is successful because i figured out the reason ***