OneDrive -- No!

[spottysallrite]

A few days ago I decided to move my work to a new laptop. As such, the OS is Win 11. Unfortunately, the Win default is to use OneDrive to back up users' files (and, no, it doesn't ask you if you want to do this), and this applies to NT, which causes problems (as documented here in the Forum; I tagged several of those with "OneDrive" to assist people in finding them, including this post).

I thought one solution would be to simply take the "NinjaTrader 8" folder out of the "OneDrive" folder and put it elsewhere. Well, apparently the problem with that is that, upon launching, NT tries to find that folder, but can't find it because it's no longer there (duh!). As such, NT doesn't launch.

So, could NT techs tell us how to change the pointer so we don't have to use OneDrive (or disable it, or un-install it)?

[bltdavid]

Good reading here.

[spottysallrite]

bitdavid, thanks for the suggestion.

Somewhat to that, the address that the hot link uses is "C:\Program Files (x86)\NinjaTrader 8\bin64"). Yes, that is where the executable resides (yes, a different folder from the NT datafiles, so not within a "OneDrive" folder). That executable tries to access the NT user data in "C:\Users\bmtn\OneDrive\Documents\NinjaTrader 8". Of course, that data is no longer there because I moved it (as above). What I want to do is change the code in the executable so that I can have it point to wherever I want (eg, not a OneDrive folder).

One would think this would be possible via the NT installation prompt. I used that, but the data files are still inside the OneDrive folder, which is NOT what I specified at the prompt. (Are NT's coders not capable of implementing their own software?)

In sum, maybe what you're (bitdavid) suggesting is that a request for this feature was placed nearly a year ago and it still hasn't been implemented (as per the link you provided)?

[NinjaTrader_Manfred]

Hello spottysallrite,

Thank you very much for your post.

While it is possible to change the program folder that NinjaTrader installs into, it would always use the Documents folder that Windows itself provides to store its data.

If you would like to change the location of the Documents folder itself, you can do this by opening the Windows Explorer, right-clicking "Documents", selecting "Properties", and "Location". However, this would move the Documents folder including all files therein, and change the reference to where this folder is.

An alternative is to completely disable Microsoft OneDrive, I've included some publicly available information in this regard below:

How to exclude individual folders from OneDrive: http://www.howtogeek.com/222817/how-...in-windows-10/

How to disable OneDrive on Windows 10: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/w...-in-windows-10

Please don't hesitate to let me know, should you have any further questions!

[spottysallrite]

I'm not following. Are you saying Win 11 requires all user files to be in a certain folder?

[NinjaTrader_Manfred]

Hello spottysallrite,

Thank you very much for your reply.

NinjaTrader Desktop will always use Windows' Documents folder location to save its data, regardless of where it has been installed.

This location cannot be changed in NinjaTrader, but you are able to move the Documents folder, which contains NinjaTrader. I've included Microsoft's publicly facing information in this regard below:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/configuration-of-the-my-documents-folder-dfd9a90d-8f80-18d6-e7cc-f1566fc3b10b

Please don't hesitate to let me know, should you have any further questions!

[spottysallrite]

Just why is it that users are not allowed to have the option of putting NT files where they want?

When installing NT there is a prompt that asks the user where he wants to put NT files. Previously, NT did just that. Now, NT puts NT files where NT wants them to be, completely ignoring the user's request. So, what's the purpose of asking the user where he wants to put the files? Are you intentionally insulting us? Can we not be trusted to do what's best for us?

You say "This location cannot be changed" Why? Says who? NT? Microsoft ? Looks like this is a policy decision by NT, and is NOT in the best interest of your customers. (Is NT getting a kickback from MS for directing revenue to MS?)

[bltdavid]

In sum, maybe what you're (bitdavid) suggesting is that a request for this feature was placed nearly a year ago and it still hasn't been implemented (as per the link you provided)?

What I'm saying is this: you are on your own.

NinjaTrader won't help you solve this, not in any real sense.

The entire corporate persona of 'NinjaTrader, The Beast' (tm) refuses
to acknowledge that the grief their users are suffering due to OneDrive
could be eradicated if they would simply allow the user folder to be
installed where ever the heck the user wanted it.

Their mysterious attraction to 'must be installed into the Documents'
folder I thought would be eliminated with the migration from SQL CE
to the newer SQLite. But, I was mistaken, that stupid Documents
folder still has its claws in the questionable Mgmt at NinjaTrader,
because like so many other things that need addressing, NT mgmt
has refused to allow this to be fixed.

Why? I have no idea. I don't know their internal politics. I don't
know which asshat mgr is the hold up and needs a spanking, but
somebody there in NT Mgmt is responsible for a lot of user pain.

So, in summary, the simple truth is obvious: they don't care.

To wit, I say again,

You are on your own.

Just my 2˘.

[xabcdtrading]

NT mgmt has refused to allow this to be fixed.

I can understand the frustration but ... perhaps there is some information you don't have which would provide you a greater understanding of why its located in the documents folder. I'm only assuming because if they could do that, and it would make users happy, i'm pretty sure they would. However, i'm not sure if it would make users happy... If they did allow people to put it "anywhere they want" it would be an administrative nightmare with support which I certainly hope they don't go down that path. The real issue here is that microsoft shouldn't be defaulting people to use one drive and putting everything on the cloud... that's the bigger issue here. If they didn't do that, then people wouldn't' be running into any issues with it. Which is how it was before... So i'd blame microsoft for even turning that one drive thing on and pushing it... especially since (as you know) the Documents/NinjaTrader 8 folder has been there way before microsoft pushed one drive in win 11. ITs kinda handy to have all your "settings" saved in one folder like this and away from the program files and since allowing people to put it "anywhere" would be a big mess, all people have to do is turn off one drive. Why uses that anyways? lol

[bltdavid]

I can understand the frustration but ... perhaps there is some information you don't have which would provide you a greater understanding of why its located in the documents folder. I'm only assuming because if they could do that, and it would make users happy, i'm pretty sure they would. However, i'm not sure if it would make users happy... If they did allow people to put it "anywhere they want" it would be an administrative nightmare with support which I certainly hope they don't go down that path. The real issue here is that microsoft shouldn't be defaulting people to use one drive and putting everything on the cloud... that's the bigger issue here. If they didn't do that, then people wouldn't' be running into any issues with it. Which is how it was before... So i'd blame microsoft for even turning that one drive thing on and pushing it... especially since (as you know) the Documents/NinjaTrader 8 folder has been there way before microsoft pushed one drive in win 11. ITs kinda handy to have all your "settings" saved in one folder like this and away from the program files and since allowing people to put it "anywhere" would be a big mess, all people have to do is turn off one drive. Why uses that anyways? lol

Ah, the age old push back against choice and freedom.

Not my fault, blame someone else, deflect, deflect. "It's
not our problem, Microsoft did it, go talk to them."

Yeah, right -- that's just an attempt to shutdown the
conversation.

Sorry, Microsoft owns Windows and will do pretty much
whatever the heck they want to do -- they're the 800 lb
gorilla -- to say it's their fault is like blaming the sun for
a sunburn.

Of course, there is information I don't have about why
NT Mgmt has not fixed it. But, does that matter?

NT Mgmt are the only people in direct control who are in
a position to change the NinjaTrader product.

You think it would be a 'big mess' to allow the user directory
to be located where ever the user wants? Sure, keep the
default as the Documents folder, but you're saying to allow
users the option of a different folder would be a 'big mess'?

I think you're exaggerating and just trolling me for a fight.



To dismiss users so quickly as to create a 'big mess' if they
use an alternate location for the user folder -- that's just
hyperbole and conjecture. What kind of mess? There is
no mess, only happiness for each user.

I get it, it's a very user specific folder, but if there is only
one user using the machine, then it doesn't really need to
be relegated to the Documents folder now, does it?

I don't understand why you, a vendor, would pushback against
this kind of user choice. You're speculating without a cause,
'big mess' my butt, and as a vendor, you'd do well to promote
changes in NinjaTrader that improve the product experience.

-=o=-

If you're a developer, your big mess is solved by using correct
code to get the user directory, which in NT8 is,

NinjaTrader.Core.Globals.UserDataDir

there, problem solved for all NinjaScript developers.

-=o=-

This is a real problem for a lot of users. It is also sneaky,
because no one realizes just what the heck is wrong until
considerable investigation is under taken. A lot of users
are not very savvy, but then again, enough are -- those
who wish to choose a different location to solve a known
problem that NT Mgmt refuses to address directly
should be allowed to do so.

To prevent this kind of simple choice is murderous on the
pleasant user experience NinjaTrader used to be known
for.

Again, of all people, why you'd want to hang your hat on
this specific problem, and defend the sustained ignorance
and lack of response from NT Mgmt -- is beyond me.

Who's side are you on?

[xabcdtrading]

I think you're exaggerating and just trolling me for a fight.

Actually not at all ... i guess what caused me to reply I probably should have explained in my original post. I (like you) had a beef about something and this eventually lead to management reaching out and offering to discuss it with me (perhaps because were a larger vendor) and I had a conversation with upper level management who basically took the time and sat down with me to explain it all, their decision making process, and why they made certain decisions ... (BTW, if they are reading this ... thank you) ... But after leaving that meeting, it left me feeling pretty bad about my original approach I basically tore them a new one and although they had heard me in this meeting and will make changes going forward, I certainly walked away knowing that if I was in management there, i probably would have done the exact same thing they did.

So my only reason why i had replied to you, is because you reminded me of myself. I guess it would be awesome if they explained it all to you too. Anyways, hopefully you get all the features you want I'm still hoping that in NT9 we might see a timeframe + instrument linking button on the market analyzer.

[backtester831]

Just why is it that users are not allowed to have the option of putting NT files where they want?

When installing NT there is a prompt that asks the user where he wants to put NT files. Previously, NT did just that. Now, NT puts NT files where NT wants them to be, completely ignoring the user's request. So, what's the purpose of asking the user where he wants to put the files? Are you intentionally insulting us? Can we not be trusted to do what's best for us?

You say "This location cannot be changed" Why? Says who? NT? Microsoft ? Looks like this is a policy decision by NT, and is NOT in the best interest of your customers. (Is NT getting a kickback from MS for directing revenue to MS?)

NT puts files into different places.

1. NT system files
2. User files like indicators, templates, etc.

When installing NT, the prompt is only for 1. NT system files

The user files always go to NinjaTrader folder relative to My Documents

The purpose of 1 and 2 being separate is because you can uninstall NinjaTrader, and still having all of your NinjaTrader custom stuff unaffected.

I'm not sure why the location of User files like indicators, templates, etc. was designed so it can only be relative to My Documents, but that's just how it currently is.

[brucerobinson]

I read threads that may affect me in the future, forewarned and all that.
One day I'll go to Win 11....
Reading all this has resulted in my head currently residing where the sun don't shine and it's dark in here.....



Could anyone kindly confirm that if/when I move to Win 11, as long as I disable and/or uninstall OneDrive, Windows will revert the \Documents folder location to good 'ol C\.....\Users\,,,,\Documents (rather than in a \Users\......\OneDrive\Documents variant..) along with Explorer Shortcuts and the like, and I need never be troubled by OneDrive again

When I then subsequently install NinjaTrader it will create its Folder inside \Users....\Documents, and thereafter play nicely.
Same as wot I got now in 10

Simply put, because Windows 11 forces OneDrive on you by Default whether you like it or not, you first have to run it out of town and correct its errant ways to get back to running how god intended. Then, you're good to go with Ninja, complete with its very own recalcitrant child behaviours

Of course if correct or otherwise I'll have forgotten this by the time I come to do it - but at least there is the possibility I'll remember writing this and come looking....

Best,

[bltdavid]

For me, when I setup my first Win11 box intended for
use with NinjaTrader, I had the 'open box' experience
of having to setup the admin and first user accounts.
These are the Windows accounts, you know the one,
as in C:\Users\<name> account -- well, the 'new pc'
experience meant I was being walked through the
process of setting up the first user.

I knew I did not want to use a Microsoft based cloud
account, I had read things about that, and preferred
the benefits of setting up a local account. Apparently,
in Win11 this is harder to do than Win10.

Anyways, I was successful, and I believe I set up these
users accounts without having to associate them with a
cloud-based Microsoft account.

Well, guess what?

By using a local account, I avoided all the under the
hood integration with OneDrive. I've never seen hide
nor hair of OneDrive on my Win11 box. Woo-hoo!

So, one suggestion is, when setting up a brand new user
on your Win11 box, make sure to use a local account, that
should stop OneDrive integration for that account. Even
current Win11 users wanting to get rid of OneDrive
could probably try this technique

Just my 2˘.

[brucerobinson]

#bltdavid many thanks - generous in your contributions as ever.
I have some hazy recollection along those lines with 10 iirc
And, again iirc, can then add the Microsoft Account association at a later date and choose what and what not to allow. (I use Edge and sync Browser Settings across devices, for example).
Thank you so much!
Kind regards,