NinjaTrader 8 OneDrive issues

[designer01]

On Windows 11 a fresh install now puts the "documents" folder into OneDrive by default and another Documents folder under the C Drive. So when I install Ninjatrader the settings folder is in "C:\Users\Username\Onedrive\Documents\Ninjatrader 8" I want the Ninja Trader default Documents folder to be directly under the C drive "C:\Users\Username\Documents\Ninjatrader 8" rather than under the Onedrive one. How do I achieve this? Thank you.

[NinjaTrader_ChrisL]

Hi designer01, OneDrive is part of the registry path to the Documents folder in the newest versions of Windows 10 and 11, the only way to change the location of Documents is to modify the Windows registry, which we do can not recommend doing.

[BartMan]

I have little if ANY use to move the location of Ninja program. I have enormous reason to set the folder where my indicators DB, cache, etc go..

The one location I absolutely wish to avoid is the OneDrive folder. No I do not want to change one Drive I only want to specify where my user folders are loaded to

I would love to have a shared folder locally C:\Users\Public\NinjaMultiLogin\NinjaTrader8 or a USB Drive U:\MyUSBDrive\NinjaTrader8
Then when the power goes out. I have all my latest information on my USB. I can use my UPS to shutdown gracefully, grab my USB and laptop and find the nearest power and internet.



C:\Users\bart\OneDrive\Documents\NinjaTrader 8 ( Default and poor choice of default )
C:\Users\bart\Documents\NinjaTrader 8
C:\Users\Public\NinjaMultiLogin\NinjaTrader8
U:\MyUSBDrive\NinjaTrader8





This would be one of the easiest programming changes Ninja could make with great user benefits.

Specify User Folder: <Keep Default, but let us specify>

C:\Documents\ Ninja Trader 8

[-=Edge=-]

OneDrive is part of the registry path to the Documents folder in the newest versions of Windows 10 and 11, the only way to change the location of Documents is to modify the Windows registry, which we do can not recommend doing.

With %USERPROFILE%/OneDrive/Documents now being the default path for Document Folders like NinjaTrader 8..

Could you please provide the exact steps a customer would use to install NT8 for the 1st time after downloaded..

First I'm looking for outlined steps for someone that is currently using/connected/syncing to OneDrive..

Next the Outline steps for someone that has just installed Windows 11 and has no plans to use OneDrive..

Thanks


Please Be Safe in this Crazy World

[QuantKey_Bruce]

With %USERPROFILE%/OneDrive/Documents now being the default path for Document Folders like NinjaTrader 8..

Could you please provide the exact steps a customer would use to install NT8 for the 1st time after downloaded..

First I'm looking for outlined steps for someone that is currently using/connected/syncing to OneDrive..

Next the Outline steps for someone that has just installed Windows 11 and has no plans to use OneDrive..

Thanks


Please Be Safe in this Crazy World

Yes, we seriously need these instructions and they should be supported / widely distributions, but not only that: this should be in the documentation, and NinjaTrader's installer should detect the presence of OneDrive syncing that folder and warn the user about this. It is not enough for NinjaTrader as a company to say "sync software in general can interfere with operation" in response to an endless river of tech support issues - OneDrive is ENABLED BY DEFAULT and NinjaTrader does not work with that configuration, so it needs to detect the situation and warn the user what they need to do in advance. BEFORE the inevitable tech support problem.

When a commercial product like NinjaTrader is incompatible with the DEFAULT CONFIGURATION OF WINDOWS, it becomes the responsibility of that product to advise the users how to make it work reliably. It is NOT the responsibility of Microsoft to advise users how to make NinjaTrader work with the default configuration of Windows.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

How many dozens or hundreds of threads about OneDrive will be enough? Apparently we're not there yet somehow despite the overwhelming evidence this is a problem for which the current stance is insufficient.

[-=Edge=-]

When a commercial product like NinjaTrader is incompatible with the DEFAULT CONFIGURATION OF WINDOWS, it becomes the responsibility of that product to advise the users how to make it work reliably. It is NOT the responsibility of Microsoft to advise users how to make NinjaTrader work with the default configuration of Windows.

Yes.. This is becoming a support time issue that should not be my responsibility..

I need NT's Recommended (Supported) Step by Step to provide or point customers too..

This would Specifically be for NT v8.0.28.0 and/or new v8.1.1.6 Desktop versions..

For both those that want to continue to use OneDrive and for those that Do Not!


Please Advise and Thanks!


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Couple Useful UnSupported OneDrive Links

Stop installing OneDrive

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/stop-installing-onedrive/d3377bcc-bd9d-4c6f-94c4-74793b3f164d

How to remove OneDrive in Windows 11

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/how-to-remove-onedrive-in-windows-11/a4d2fa05-e33a-4474-b934-e7e45974d5d9?page=1

Documents folder stuck in OneDrive and duplicate Pictures folders.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/documents-folder-stuck-in-onedrive-and-duplicate/286f11c1-f74e-4808-b306-fd1f25abbe85

How do I create a new Documents folder?

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/how-do-i-create-a-new-documents-folder/56756108-8acd-472c-a114-ddf13658b2e6

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Be Safe in this Crazy World!

[bltdavid]

More good info here.

[bltdavid]

Yes, we seriously need these instructions and they should be supported / widely distributions, but not only that: this should be in the documentation, and NinjaTrader's installer should detect the presence of OneDrive syncing that folder and warn the user about this. It is not enough for NinjaTrader as a company to say "sync software in general can interfere with operation" in response to an endless river of tech support issues - OneDrive is ENABLED BY DEFAULT and NinjaTrader does not work with that configuration, so it needs to detect the situation and warn the user what they need to do in advance. BEFORE the inevitable tech support problem.

When a commercial product like NinjaTrader is incompatible with the DEFAULT CONFIGURATION OF WINDOWS, it becomes the responsibility of that product to advise the users how to make it work reliably. It is NOT the responsibility of Microsoft to advise users how to make NinjaTrader work with the default configuration of Windows.

Totally agreed.

Also, I'm perplexed why someone can't pick their
own User installation folder, say in D:/NT8, or some
such, so that the database and all user documents
go into D:/NT8 ...

I mean, in prior releases, the use of the SQL CE
(Microsoft's single user Compact Edition SQL db
product) for their database was the culprit. In fact,
I think SQL CE documented this limitation, so it was
an external limitation being imposed.

But now, with the move to SQLite, what's the issue?
Why can't users move their NT8 user folder to where
ever they want? Where's the limitation coming from?

Does anyone know?

If users could install their user folder anywhere they
like, that would be easiest way to avoid the OneDrive
conflicts, right?

NT Support, do you have any comment?

[-=Edge=-]

OneDrive is part of the registry path to the Documents folder in the newest versions of Windows 10 and 11, the only way to change the location of Documents is to modify the Windows registry, which we do can not recommend doing.

With %USERPROFILE%/OneDrive/Documents now being the default path for Document Folders like NinjaTrader 8..

Could you please provide the exact steps a customer would use to install NT8 for the 1st time after downloaded..

First I'm looking for outlined steps for someone that is currently using/connected/syncing to OneDrive..

Next the Outline steps for someone that has just installed Windows 11 and has no plans to use OneDrive..

Bump.. I was not trying to ask any trick questions here!
But 10 days without response is on verge of unacceptable!

[JeffCO7]

NinjaTrader_ChrisL, please correct anything I say below if I am in error. I am going out on a limb to be quite this bold/direct in my post. I will be happy to edit/retract if you find I am in grievous error. Don't get me wrong, I love Ninjatrader. I rewrote all my work from Tradestation to Ninjatrader because I find it to be superior in the aspects that matter to me. I am hopefully on the track to create an interface to a machine learning system.

To the topic at hand ....

In my humble opinion, Ninjatrader should update their software deployment. The Documents installation is a huge headache and imposes unnecessary constraints on the users. Windows used to have fine grained controls on Onedrive backups. You could just uncheck the Ninjatrader subfolders so they were not backed up with everything else. Therefore, installing in NT Documents, while odd, was not an real issue. I'm not a fan of the change in Windows.

The current situation is this:
1. Users have to either turn off onedrive for everything .... OR ..... they have issues with onedrive impeding Ninjatrader operations.
2. NT has not addressed the Onedrive issue properly for their user community.
---- For example, the installation instructions say nothing about disabling Onedrive. So 99% of initial installations are installed in the onedrive folder and are subject to sync clash issues.
---- Users can address the Onedrive sync clash issues only if -- The users notice the issues (onedrive sync clashes), have some understanding of the underlying problem, are aware of the forum, check the forum, and find the out of date (not windows 11) instructions.
3. It would seem to me that Ninjatrader is opening themselves to issues if a trader experiences platform issues related to onedrive sync issues during live trading and it results in capital loss as a consequence. Either because of platform performance or distraction in trading due to the sync related pop-ups.
4. I personally feel that it is improper for Ninjatrader to impose widespread changes to Microsoft's recommended use of their platform (turning off onedrive) to accommodate NTs deployment limitations.

A suggestion for a solution:
Most applications install all the application data in C:\Users\MyUserAccount\Appdata and not in C:\User\MuUserAccount\Documents or C:\User\MuUserAccount\OneDrive\Documents. Another method is to create a .ninjatrader folder under C:\Users\MyUserAccount. or put data in the C:\Users\MyUserAccount\.local older. Many other vendors like redhat or MS VSCode use that option.

A possible separation might be:

Users Documents/Ninjatrder 8 folder: bin, export, import, log, outgoing, strategyanalyzerlogs, templates, trace, workspaces folders along with , Config.xml, Indicator and UI.xml files (I am not sure if some of these should really be in the non-onedrive area below)

Users AppData or .ninjatrader folder (Non backed up by onedrive): cache & db folders

NT is the only application I run that Clashes with Onedrive Sync. It also keeps the data in the user directory allowing for separation of user data for systems with multiple profiles.

Is it possible to add this or a similar fix to the backlog of Ninjatrader enhancements for some time in the next year?

I am sure all the customer support calls and emails related to this are not an insignificant cost.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

JeffCO7 You're absolutely right of course. There's no excuse that this is still this way. At the BARE MINIMUM the installer needs to detect OneDrive and WARN the user that NinjaTrader is incompatible with Windows default settings - but MOVING the database and related to the app data folder would be the real solution. NinjaTrader is one of the only significant trading apps I know of that stores an in-flight database and similar heavy-usage data files in the documents folder - that's just not a good idea anymore given the prevalence of OneDrive and other similar sync solutions, and we're all paying a heavy price in lost productivity for this long ago decision and also for the stalling and denialism about simply fixing it.

[JeffCO7]

NinjaTrader_ChrisL.
What are Ninjatrader's plans going forward concerning storing DBs and other configs that can be an issue with OneDrive?

Please see my post from 6/7/23 above. There is a solution that is easy for NT by separating the storage of config, DB, and other files from OneDrive's Documentation path. Is this in the backlog? How do we get something like this prioritized?

The impact on us as NT users is that many applications rely on OneDrive—especially MS Office. Disabling OneDrive for the Documents folder means autosave is unavailable for MS documents. However, enabling OneDrive for the Documents folder impacts NinjaTrader's performance.

To date, Ninjatrader's solution is to turn off specific directories in Documents for Onedrive. However, individual folder exceptions are unavailable in Windows 11 and the latest Windows 10. Therefore, NinjaTrader's suggested fixes are Not an Option for anyone following proper security practices and keeping their Windows version and patches up to date.