Multi-broker with Different Licences in 8.0 and 8.1

[jeronymite]

Scenario:

• Prop trading with more than one prop firm, each of which has a different licence key
• Also, trading live accounts with various brokers using a separate licence key (pre-8.1)

How does one connect to and trade on multiple accounts simultaneously that require different licence keys, in both 8.0 and 8.1, all within the same single Desktop invocation?

For example, start 8.0 or 8.1, and Connect to three different prop firms and a number of other broker accounts from three different brokers, all within the same running 8.0 or 8.1 instance.

For 8.1, it is understood that a licence key would already have been migrated into an Account. But there are multiple licence keys required to trade as indicated.

Thanks.

[NinjaTrader_BrandonH]

Hello jeronymite,

Thanks for your post.

In 8.0 any prop firm License Key should give you the ability to view live accounts that connect using "Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage".

Note that in 8.0 and 8.1 any "Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage" connections cannot run simultaneously due to limitations of the adapter. The only connection adapter that can run simultaneously is "NinjaTrader".

In 8.1 if you have multiple prop firms that do NOT use "Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage" but use the "NinjaTrader" connection then no license key is required. You would simply configure your multiple connections using the "NinjaTrader" connection type.

Please see this NinjaTrader article for more information about how to connect to a NinjaTrader Brokerage account and an Evaluation account at the same time: https://support.ninjatrader.com/s/ar...Web-Connection

The NinjaTrader Client Dashboard would be used to manage license keys. Please reach out to support[at]ninjatrader[dot]com if you have trouble with a license key.

[bltdavid]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought any Rithmic-basd prop-firm provided
license key for 8.0 (where the key is tied to that prop firm) can be imported
into 8.1, which then unlocks the general case for any prop firm to connect
to the 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage' connection.

Is that not the case?

I mean, are cloud accounts with an imported license key (provided by a
Rithmic based prop firm, and thus tied to that prop firm), are these cloud
accounts still tied to that same prop firm when configuring a new connection?

I kinda thought the import 'unlocks' the direct attachment to that specific
prop firm, and the resulting 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage' connection
type can now be used for any Rithmic-based prop firm connection.

Brandon, is my thinking correct?

[QuantKey_Bruce]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought any Rithmic-basd prop-firm provided
license key for 8.0 (where the key is tied to that prop firm) can be imported
into 8.1, which then unlocks the general case for any prop firm to connect
to the 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage' connection.

Is that not the case?

I mean, are cloud accounts with an imported license key (provided by a
Rithmic based prop firm, and thus tied to that prop firm), are these cloud
accounts still tied to that same prop firm when configuring a new connection?

I kinda thought the import 'unlocks' the direct attachment to that specific
prop firm, and the resulting 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage' connection
type can now be used for any Rithmic-based prop firm connection.

Brandon, is my thinking correct?

It's even broader than that, is it not? If you had a prop-trading license in 8.0, you need multi-broker user entitlement in 8.1. With multi-broker user entitlement, you would be able to connect with any supported broker. That means anyone using Rithmic, but also anyone else. What am I missing here?

[NinjaTrader_BrandonH]

Hello bltdavid and QuantKey_Bruce,

Thanks for your note.

It seems your understanding is correct.

When you import a Rithmic license key into the NinjaTrader Client Dashboard the license key will import and you will have the ability to connect to essentially any prop firm using Rithmic.

You can enable access for use of the desktop platform with additional integrated 3rd party brokerages by purchasing the Multiple Brokerage Add-On for the Desktop Platform.

Multi-Broker Mode for NinjaTrader Desktop: https://support.ninjatrader.com/s/ar...Trader-Desktop

[jeronymite]

So, to be very clear:

• 8.0: Any prop firm licence works only with that specific prop firm, and no other Connections are permitted, even for other brokerages?
• 8.1: Any prop firm licence essentially unlocks all prop firms and all other brokerages, provided one Connects with NinjaTrader, not Rithmic for NinjaTrader? And with Multi-Broker, multiple Connections are possible.

Thanks.

[bltdavid]

So, to be very clear:

• 8.0: Any prop firm licence works only with that specific prop firm, and no other Connections are permitted, even for other brokerages?
• 8.1: Any prop firm licence essentially unlocks all prop firms and all other brokerages, provided one Connects with NinjaTrader, not Rithmic for NinjaTrader; And with Multi-Broker, multiple Connections are possible.

Thanks.

I'm confused, why use 'NinjaTrader' connection?

I mean, after the import, wouldn't 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader
Brokerage' become an available connection type?

Ergo, can't we just use 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage'?

-=o=-

Say you have accts with Apex, Leeloo, and Bulenox.
How to best set this up in 8.1 world?

My thought is this:

1. Import any 8.0 license key from any of your Rithmic-based
prop firms into 8.1 (ie, pick one of the 8.0 keys from one of your
three prop firms above, it should not matter which one)

2. After import, this creates 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage'
as a available connection type.

3, Now create 3 different connections, each connection uses same
'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage' connection type, but uses the
credentials from the prop firm. Name the connection same name
as the prop firm name.

4. Connect to any of the 3 prop firms. You may only connect
to one at a time.

5. Multi-Provider mode is not enabled or needed (?)

6. The expense of Multi-Broker addon is not needed.

Are these steps correct?
Is there a better way?

As far as trading the 3 prop firms, aren't the above steps
the best solution to your original question?

Ok, sure, add in the M/B addon (or import an 8.0 M/B lifetime
license key) and that gives you NTB, IB, FXCM, etc ... but
adding M/B to the steps above doesn't change anything for
those trading 3 different prop firms, right? In particular, the
M/B addon (or Multi-provider mode) doesn't change the
limitation of trading only one prop firm at a time, right?

Not an 8.1 expert by any means, but did I miss anything?

[jeronymite]

Well, bltdavid, confusion about 8.1 is there by design ... almost literally. I appreciate your additional efforts for clarity.

As to why use the NinjaTrader Connection, that is simply my (probably poor) attempt to interpret the comments by NinjaTrader_BrandonH :

Note that in 8.0 and 8.1 any "Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage" connections cannot run simultaneously due to limitations of the adapter. The only connection adapter that can run simultaneously is "NinjaTrader".

In 8.1 if you have multiple prop firms that do NOT use "Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage" but use the "NinjaTrader" connection then no license key is required. You would simply configure your multiple connections using the "NinjaTrader" connection type.

In particular, I want to have simultaneous Connections; i.e. trade multiple prop accounts and other non-Prop accounts at the same time.

Let's see what further confusion/clarity comes.

Thanks.

[bltdavid]

Yeah, I am confused as well.

I mean, other than NTB customers, who else would use
the 'NinjaTrader' connection?

The 'NinjaTrader' connection is not a pre-built connection.

My attempts to find just what the heck this connection means
have failed, it doesn't appear to be documented in the help
guide.

[bltdavid]

Please see this NinjaTrader article for more information about how to connect to a NinjaTrader Brokerage account and an Evaluation account at the same time: https://support.ninjatrader.com/s/ar...Web-Connection

Ah, I think I found the source of my confusion.

Brandon does not mean Rithmic-based evaluation accounts.

Apparently, the phrase 'evaluation account' or 'evaluation service'
does not mean a prop firm account at all.

[EDIT: Ok, 'evaluation service' means prop firm, but some prop firms,
like Apex, sell evaluation subscriptions that use Tradovate. These specific
subscriptions are not compatible with the NT desktop, they are considered
Tradovate-only]

NT support muddies the waters by using these generic terms in ways
that create confusion, because apparently the new phrase 'Evaluation
Account' is their stupid and completely unnecessary term for what the
rest of the world has always called a 'demo account'.

[EDIT: Ok, I may have been a bit harsh here. Apologies. It now seems
the term 'evaluation account' probably means a subscription eval acct
at a prop firm that is specifically tied to Tradovate, or the NT desktop,
(but not both) such as what Apex is now doing.]

Is there an 8.1 glossary for all these new 'terms'?

See below.

[bltdavid]

In particular, I want to have simultaneous Connections; i.e. trade multiple prop accounts and other non-Prop accounts at the same time.

If you mean trade multiple Rithmic-based prop accounts, forget it.

It's well established that all Rithmic-based prop firms would require the
use of the same 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage' connection type.

It's also well-established that that Connection will only support one
connection to one prop firm account at a time. [So, sure, configure
all the connections you want for your prop firms, but just like before,
if these prop firm accounts all use the same connection type, you can
only connect to one of them at time.]

-=o=-

I'm presuming that the 'NinjaTrader' connection type does not support
the connection needed for Rithmic-based prop firms.

Brandon, is that correct?

-=o=-

The only workaround is if you have the 'Rithmic' connection type along
with the 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage' connection type.

With these two Connection types, you could configure, say, Apex as
'Rithmic' and Leeloo as 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage' (or vice
versa) and you could connect simultaneously to both prop firms, since
these two connection adapters are considered 'different' despite both
connecting to Rithmic servers.

AFAIK, this is a special case enjoyed only by long-time holders of the
M/B lifetime license, aka, the infamous 'grandfathered license', which
means it was purchased before July 2014 or so.

-=o=-

I've never got clarity from NT Support about whether the deprecated
'Rithmic' adapter suddenly becomes available if you purchase the new
$99/mon M/B Addon subscription.

Brandon?

[bltdavid]

If you want to setup a connection for a Rithmic-based prop
firm, you would follow these steps.

[bltdavid]

Hmm ...

Reading this page and this page ...

It appears to me that 'evaluation service' means prop firm.

[AFAIK, Tradovate is not and never was a prop firm, so
it's really unclear why Tradovate would ever be referred to
as an 'evaluation service'.]

But it also seems 'evaluation account' is used to mean
'demo account', and not 'account at a prop firm'.

Is this correct?

Brandon?

-=o=-

Good god, man, this shouldn't be so damn hard!

Is it just me or what?

Users should not be having to write into a forum and
ask support personnel for clarification of these new
8.1 descriptions.

8.1 is still a clusterf*sk.

[bltdavid]

[AFAIK, Tradovate is not and never was a prop firm, so
it's really unclear why Tradovate would ever be referred to
as an 'evaluation service'.]

Well, uh, it may just be me.

Apex allows users to use Tradovate or the Desktop, but you have
to specify which kind of evaluation you want before purchase.

Maybe that helps to explain the missing pieces in my brain.

[bltdavid]

Apex should just buy NinjaTrader.