Multiple Accounts Sign In

[boomm]

Curious why we are not allowed to sign in on multiple accounts? (ex multiple rithmic accounts for prop firms) What is the purpose of limiting traders with 1 account sign in? With Prop firms being used so widely popular today, there would be an increase popular demand for allowing multiple logins. Wouldn't this benefit NT as more users will use NT? Would I be able to request for multiple sign in? thanks

[backtester831]

Not sure the reason why, but I've got Apex and Bulenox accounts, so I just use a VPS for each one. Then with multiple VPS I use Replikanto in network mode to copy trades between the VPS to the different prop firm accounts because my vps company set me up with a local network so don't need to pay for Replikanto remote credits. It's pretty awesome too because the trades copy extremely quickly between the prop firms, like less than a few milliseconds.

Edit: The NinjaMobileTrader is the name of the VPS company that setup local network for trade copying with Replikanto between multiple servers

[boomm]

Not sure the reason why, but I've got Apex and Bulenox accounts, so I just use a VPS for each one. Then with multiple VPS I use Replikanto in network mode to copy trades between the VPS to the different prop firm accounts because my vps company set me up with a local network so don't need to pay for Replikanto remote credits. It's pretty awesome too because the trades copy extremely quickly between the prop firms, like less than a few milliseconds.

I too have Replikanto and use to copy off my other PCs, which VPS company are you using and how did you get them to setup a local network with the server? That's pretty awesome since you're able to save for credits from Replikanto. I just wish NT can allow us to to sign in multiple accounts to save hassle or sign up to other companies...I know the og NT traders that bought NT long time ago has this privilege...At least have this feature for traders that bought lifetime...

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello boomm,

I have moved this thread from the General Development section of the forums to the Platform Technical section of the forums, as this is not an inquiry about programming or C# / NinjaScript development.

It is possible to enable Multi-provider mode to connect to multiple providers.

https://support.ninjatrader.com/s/article/How-To-Enable-Multi-Provider-on-NinjaTrader-Desktop

[bltdavid]

Hello boomm,

I have moved this thread from the General Development section of the forums to the Platform Technical section of the forums, as this is not an inquiry about programming or C# / NinjaScript development.

It is possible to enable Multi-provider mode to connect to multiple providers.

https://support.ninjatrader.com/s/ar...Trader-Desktop

Yes, but OP wants to connect to multiple Rithmic based prop firms
at the same time -- he knows that users who bought their license
long ago have this privilege, and he wants to know why this kind of
dual access can't be made available to newer folks.

For example,
if he could login into both Apex and Bulenox in the same instance
of NT, then he would not have to lease two VPSs and use the more
expensive network mode of a 3rd party trade copier -- he would
rather use one VPS and use a trade copier in single host copy
mode (which intrinsically every trade copier already supports).

He's saying lack of such dual access to multiple Rithmic accounts
makes operating NinjaTrader more expensive than necessary.

-=o=-

Yeah! This!

You're making this OP pay a second subscription to a VPS provider,
when hey, OP is probably willing to pay you that money, if he could
just log into both of his Rithmic accts in the same NT instance
at the same time.

Think of all the money NT mgmt is letting go down the drain because
they don't want people to log into multiple Rithmic accounts from the
same instance of NT.

This could be a new revenue source, and it is very surprising that
NT mgmt doesn't see the revenue benefit. (Also, just another example
of how NT mgmt could provide better service to customers, and
even gain revenue from it, but yet they still choose not to. This is
just one of many reasons why NT upper mgmt people are not very
bright, and now we have all of 8.1 rollout as more evidence. But,
seriously, think about it, NT mgmt is leaving money on the table,
which illustrates a pretty stupid business sense.)

Anyways, can NT support please address what 'multi-provider' really
means (when compared to what a grandfathered M/B license meant)
and how 'multi-provider' benefits (or not) the newer NT users who want
to trade with multiple Rithmic based prop firms at the same time?

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello bltdavid,

I think I'm understanding.

The issue is with the Rithmic connection adapter itself, which as a limitation is unable to connect to concurrent accounts.
The same is true of the CQG/Continuum connection adapter.

I am happy to submit a feature request for development to consider improving the Rithmic connection adapter to handle simultaneous concurrent rithmic connections.

Once I have a tracking ID for this request I will post in this thread for future reference.


Multi-provider mode, allows for connecting on the platform to any connection type for data, while only being able to trade NinjaTrader.

Enabling the Multi-broker addon allows for live trading to other brokerages.

[boomm]

Yes, but OP wants to connect to multiple Rithmic based prop firms
at the same time -- he knows that users who bought their license
long ago have this privilege, and he wants to know why this kind of
dual access can't be made available to newer folks.

For example,
if he could login into both Apex and Bulenox in the same instance
of NT, then he would not have to lease two VPSs and use the more
expensive network mode of a 3rd party trade copier -- he would
rather use one VPS and use a trade copier in single host copy
mode (which intrinsically every trade copier already supports).

He's saying lack of such dual access to multiple Rithmic accounts
makes operating NinjaTrader more expensive than necessary.

-=o=-

Yeah! This!

You're making this OP pay a second subscription to a VPS provider,
when hey, OP is probably willing to pay you that money, if he could
just log into both of his Rithmic accts in the same NT instance
at the same time.

Think of all the money NT mgmt is letting go down the drain because
they don't want people to log into multiple Rithmic accounts from the
same instance of NT.

This could be a new revenue source, and it is very surprising that
NT mgmt doesn't see the revenue benefit. (Also, just another example
of how NT mgmt could provide better service to customers, and
even gain revenue from it, but yet they still choose not to. This is
just one of many reasons why NT upper mgmt people are not very
bright, and now we have all of 8.1 rollout as more evidence. But,
seriously, think about it, NT mgmt is leaving money on the table,
which illustrates a pretty stupid business sense.)

Anyways, can NT support please address what 'multi-provider' really
means (when compared to what a grandfathered M/B license meant)
and how 'multi-provider' benefits (or not) the newer NT users who want
to trade with multiple Rithmic based prop firms at the same time?

Nailed it, thank you for breaking down what I did not explain clearly.
Being able to connect to Multiple Rithmic Accounts is so HIGH in demand
right now because of prop firms...NT mgmt is definitely missing out $$$

[Lancer]

Account Groups for NT8 has been a feature request for many years, still unfulfilled. In this 2017 Account Groups for NT8 discussion thread alone there are 9 pages and 6+ years of user votes in support, with many other feature request threads like it, but there is still no indication that NT developers are even working on it. The ID for this request is SFT-889.

[brucerobinson]

#Lancer - as I expect you recall in the words of Mr McCoy ‘it’s worse than that, he’s dead Jim’, Account Groups was available in NT7 and purposefully removed in NT8.
It was probably in response to the roar of the User-base pleading with NT eradicate this annoying unwanted Feature. You know, same as they got rid of the ability to ‘Group trades by ATM Strategy’ in Trade Performance because this was at the overwhelming behest of Users that demanded it be banished.

I think the operative word we’re looking for is disingenuous.

[bltdavid]

The issue is with the Rithmic connection adapter itself, which as a limitation is unable to connect to concurrent accounts.
The same is true of the CQG/Continuum connection adapter.

For Rithmic, this is somewhat wrong information.

Chelsea, are you aware of what a 'grandfathered' license allows?
Please read this.

I think what OP really wants to know is this:
Why can't this feature of grandfathered licenses be resurrected?

[boomm]

Account Groups for NT8 has been a feature request for many years, still unfulfilled. In this 2017 Account Groups for NT8 discussion thread alone there are 9 pages and 6+ years of user votes in support, with many other feature request threads like it, but there is still no indication that NT developers are even working on it. The ID for this request is SFT-889.

NT mngmt not doing a great job listening to traders request which can obviously boost users...

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello bltdavid,

The NinjaTrader license keys in the past would unlock providers. Meaning the connection adapter (Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage) would be available. Using that, any brokerage could be connected that uses that connection adapter type, as the connection type is available. However, this would not allow for multiple simultaneous Rithmic connections at the same time. That is not a license issue. That is a limitation of the Rithmic connection adapter. Meaning with NinjaTrader release 8.0.26.1, you could not connect to multiple Rithmic connections at the same time.

Why can't this feature of grandfathered licenses be resurrected?

From my understanding, this was never a feature for Rithmic with grandfathered licenses.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello,

This request is being tracked with ID # SFT-4923.

Please note, we receive many requests and cannot reasonably implement all requested features or changes. Interest is tracked internally and if enough interest is tracked, it would be weighed against how feasible it would be to make those changes to consider implementing, so we cannot offer an ETA or promise of fulfillment.

When new features are implemented, they will be listed in the Release Notes page of the Help Guide. The ID number may be different than the internal feature request tracking ID, but the description of the feature will let you know if that feature has been implemented.

Release Notes - https://ninjatrader.com/support/help...ease_notes.htm

[bltdavid]

The NinjaTrader license keys in the past would unlock providers. Meaning the connection adapter (Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage) would be available. Using that, any brokerage could be connected that uses that connection adapter type, as the connection type is available. However, this would not allow for multiple simultaneous Rithmic connections at the same time. That is not a license issue. That is a limitation of the Rithmic connection adapter. Meaning with NinjaTrader release 8.0.26.1, you could not connect to multiple Rithmic connections at the same time.

From my understanding, this was never a feature for Rithmic with grandfathered licenses.

Thanks, I see you've created a feature request.

But I want to re-iterate:
For a certain lucky set of users, this already works right now.

I have a grandfathered M/B lifetime license.
I have Apex configured as 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage'.
I have Leeloo configured as 'Rithmic'.
I have NinjaTrader 8.0.26.1.

I am able to connect to Apex and Leeloo at the exact same
time, from a single running instance of NT 8.0.26.1.

I'm telling you -- it works -- and it works on 8.0.27.1, too.
(I don't know about 8.1.1.3, 'user entitlements' are a new thing)

Here's the point:
This feature is already available for grandfathered M/B lifetime license
holders -- but lots of new folks (thousands?) would love to be able to
do this using their non-grandfathered M/B lifetime licenses.

Why can't this 'feature' (perhaps unintended) be adopted as official and
then provided to the broader user community?

This 'trick' is available today to the lucky users with grandfathered M/B
lifetime license keys, but this should somehow be adopted and made
universally available.

In fact, all you have to do is add back the 'Rithmic' connection type,
and you're done -- users will see 'Rithmic' and 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader
Brokerage' and be able to enjoy this same privilege long-time NT users
have enjoyed for years.

Make sense?

-=o=-

Btw, when Apex first launched, their inaugural 'grand-opening' webinar
was conducted by Darrell Martin, who has an older M/B lifetime license
(which also happened to be 'grandfathered', but he was not aware of this
at the time, nor was he aware of the significance of that term) so he merrily
demonstrated how he could simultaneously connect to Leeloo and Apex at
the exact same time and use his trade copier to trade both accounts.

He advised his audience to check into the purchase an M/B lifetime license
key if they wanted to do the same thing.

I immediately caught onto this, and I also knew about the g/f status of my
license key. I quickly signed up for an Apex account and checked Darrell's
assertion of simultaneous connections. On NT7, this trick did not work.
But on NT8, it did work. Hot dog!

I also wrote into NT Support asking if this ability to connect to two
Rithmic based prop firms was intentional. Support said that was not
possible, but I knew better ... and decided to let it drop.

Despite what Support says, it is possible -- I'm doing it right now
on NT 8.0.26.1 and 8.0.27.1.

Anyways, as anyone with a newer M/B lifetime license key knows,
new users do not have access to a 'Rithmic' connection, because
this connection has been removed.

Darrell quickly learned this feature was exclusive to grandfathered
licenses, and has since modified his teachings -- eg, last I knew,
the Apex web site recommends using a VM to run a 2nd instance
of Windows, then install & run a 2nd instance of NT8 inside it, then
connect and trade your other Rithmic based prop firm inside the
2nd instance of NT8 running inside the VM.

So, yeah, it's a well-known trick (sort of) currently available and fully
operational in today's production code base.

For some reason,
'Rithmic' and 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage' are two different
connections and can exist and operate together at the same time.

By resurrecting the moth-balled 'Rithmic' connection, this 'trick' could
be turned into an official feature and made available to everyone
(with a M/B lifetime license key, or equivalent) in a heartbeat.

Just my 2˘.

[brucerobinson]

NT rescinded the ability to upgrade grandfathered single-broker licenses to multi-broker without forewarning, without showing courtesy to such users to allow them to make a choice. I think it is what Ninja referred to as ‘will be ‘encouraging’ legacy users to migrate to the new offering’. Wax lyrical about still supporting NT7 whilst operating policies which are in effect covert coercion. I see static Dom is to be dropped from lifetime licences if you migrate, but you must fine-toothed-comb through Forum pages to spot this.
Having purchased a single-broker licence before Ninja ever acquired Mirrus brokerage, when the Xmas special would come around it would prompt me to casually consider upgrading to M/B to add Ninja-broker once they’d proved themselves.
But I’m of the ‘ain’t broke leave it alone’ persuasion & could have done so anytime with same offer as a member of another Forum - that offer similarly revoked (offers are a nice little encouragement but hardly the basis for a decision). No doubt to be replaced with another ‘encouragement’ for something I don’t want (& this forum is an abject example of why not, at least yet) in favour of something Ninja want me to.
Goes without saying sitting on the sidelines of this 8.1 utter debacle is hardly what I want to see, cold comfort at best but grey hair is hard-won.

The point about prop-firms and changing marketplace is well made. I now have reasons to consider using/leveraging them which is a relatively new case.

And Ninja pulled the option I’ve had for 10 years to upgrade to m/b without notice, without a by-your-leave. With hindsight, I should have just done it whether I needed it or not. But I shouldn’t have had to, I trusted that NT would not take this entitlement away without forewarning and giving the opportunity to exercise before losing. Courtesy, respect, - resentment….

Talk about how to build customer resentment….. So for something I could have opted to purchase given forewarning I’d now have to use virtual machines, vps, all sorts of stuff & nonesense I know little about, way above my pay-grade nor inclined to pursue. Thanks.

All this simply (albeit long-windedly) support the case made by the OP et al. There is a business-case in how today’s market has developed for multi-broker connections.

My request is that not only does NT make it available, but does so retrospectively to re-instate the ability to upgrade from single to multi (at least until that same offering is available in the new platform, and all other migration issues are resolved, Account Dashboard etc.). It seems it is something prop-firms would likely promote going forward all to Ninja’s brokerage business’ benefit but I’m not here to tell NT it’s forward strategy - just to say there are some of us (at least 1) who would appreciate the discretion of re-instating the ability to upgrade legacy licences from single to multi-broker…..

Talk about timing, doing the wrong thing at the wrong time.
Yes, in due course when all these teething troubles are ironed out I will likely move to the new offering, but reasons against far outweigh reasons for as yet in my case. May well not be so for others, good luck to all