New Subscriber, Old Desktop Platform

[brucerobinson]

The more I read the forums, and discover new bits & pieces,
esp this one about new users having no access to the 8.0 branch,
the more I feel glad about purchasing my M/B lifetime license key
in Dec 2013.

I see 8.0.27.1 is available to download in the Dashboard now.

Think how you'd feel if you'd flopped instead of flipped and decided against buying the M/B licence on the basis I could do so if ever the need or desire arose. Pulled without notice.

I wonder if on your travels you've discovered the bit and piece that at some point the static DOM is to be made available only to Ninja Brokerage customers. No trading Futures on the DOM otherwise thereafter. I keep wondering if I'll just wake up the next morning to find it has become so.

All sooooo complicated my head hurts. One thing that put me off buying the M/B Licence was the apparent complexity of whether or not I actually needed M/B in order to have multi-broker connections (having read your various encyclopaedic tomes on the subject helping others), or just needed to choose brokers carefully for compatibility. Doesn't look like I'll ever have to concern myself with it. I'm just a simple human.

These self-inflicted wounds are all so, so tedious and as is boldly apparent considerable destruction of goodwill.

KR

[bltdavid]

Seems like NT is just a stupid mess right now ...

Hmm, may have had that wrong.

Should have said hot stupid mess.

The more I read the forums, and discover new bits & pieces,
esp this one about new users having no access to the 8.0 branch,
the more I feel glad about purchasing my M/B lifetime license key
in Dec 2013.

I shouldn't have this feeling of being one of the lucky ones, but
frankly, I do. Just dumb luck ... I bought M/B license during the
Xmas sale. Didn't have to, but I said 'Merry Christmas to Me'
and did it anyways. Geez ... pure luck.

I feel sad because new users are not able to use the 8.0 branch.

I feel disheartened thinking that NinjaTrader's best years may
soon be a distant memory.

From my perspective, it feels like NinjaTrader is moving
backward a bit faster than it's moving forward.

Arrrrrgh.

[baio98]

baio98 All scripts that are compatible for NinjaTrader 8 should be available to use on 8.0 or 8.1 iterations of NinjaTrader. Additinally, updating to 8.1 from 8.0 shouldn't remove or affect any custom indicators you already have installed. However if you are experiencing issues with purchases scripts on the new version please contact the vendor/developer to ensure there is no known issues or limitations with that particular script.

Unfortunately this is not the case. I am following a training school and all users got the indicator update today, which didn't work before.
The problem is that if I had bought that indicator, apart from that I had no way to install it (since I'm new and therefore forced to use the new version), and even if today the manufacturer released the indicator update ( which consisted of deleting the old one and installing the new one) I still wouldn't be able to get it to work, as the new version won't open (so many people from my training school are in this situation).
Don't imagine the harm you are doing by preventing new users from using old versions (or at least 8.0.27!!!)
A lot of problems would be solved, and while the new version is stable, at least they can use the first one!

Translated with Google Translate

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

baio98 All scripts that are compatible for NinjaTrader 8 should be available to use on 8.0 or 8.1 iterations of NinjaTrader. Additinally, updating to 8.1 from 8.0 shouldn't remove or affect any custom indicators you already have installed. However if you are experiencing issues with purchases scripts on the new version please contact the vendor/developer to ensure there is no known issues or limitations with that particular script.

[jeronymite]

The effects of the major changes between 8.0.x.x and 8.1.x.x are what they are. But it's important to understand that the change to remove licences and introduce user entitlements via login credentials is, in itself, not a major impediment to backwards compatibility between the two iterations, and generally speaking is not itself problematic. In many ways it has benefits in the long run. It's the poor implementation, as well as the deeply flawed execution of the whole rollout process, demonstrating a profound lack of consideration for the user community, that are the issues.

Continuing to make 8.0.x.x available for a period of time is not difficult. The roadblock is purely policy. The technology is known and available. It is nothing more than equating a licence with a set of user credentials and setting user entitlements accordingly. (This is, after all, what "importing a licence" does in the Account Portal!) This could (and many believe should) be done, at the very least for a known, publicly announced transition period, preferably of at least several months, or even one year. This would more closely align with best practice in the IT industry generally, and accord with good IT Service Management practices. Such an accommodation to this loud outcry from the user community would go a long way to making this major transformation more palatable, and offer NinjaTrader a way to show good faith with its loyal customer base.

Thanks.

[QuantKey_Bruce]

... Two instances of NT8 (and probably 8.1 as well, although I don't use it) can't run concurrently ...

I understand the nature of your complaint, but NT is designed with one instance per Windows platform in mind. Have you considered maybe using a VPS for one or both of them?

It would be nice if NT allowed multiple installations each with its own separate directories. But, thus far, it does not. If it did that, you could just run 2 or 3 copies of 8.1 at the same time on the same Windows.

[baio98]

NinjaTrader_RyanS Una politica cosě deplorevole che tratta molto male la comunitŕ degli utenti. Alla semplice pressione di un tasto su 2023-03-05, senza preavviso, NT 8.0.x.x e NT 7 sono sottoposti a embargo per i nuovi utenti. Si potrebbe sostenere che potrebbe essere considerato ragionevole per NT 7. Ma negare l'accesso ai nuovi utenti all'allora attuale NT 8.0.27.1 in un istante e, inoltre, negare ai propri fornitori l'opportunitŕ di vendere ai trader che, per qualsiasi motivo, vogliono continuare con il flusso 8.0.x.x, č sia irrazionale dal punto di vista del business, sia assolutamente irrispettoso di coloro che si sono impegnati con l'azienda, e coloro che vogliono impegnarsi per l'azienda con un periodo di grazia di utilizzo di un prodotto noto. Č pratica comune nel settore IT consentire un periodo di transizione per i cambiamenti piů importanti. Ciň č in contrasto con le buone pratiche commerciali e il rispetto per i clienti, attuali e forse futuri.

Probabilmente non sarŕ apprezzato da molti che non capiscono l'umorismo britannico, ma mi viene in mente l'episodio di "Yes, Minister" (S02E01 "The Compassionate Society") riguardante lo stato del St Edward's Hospital che č stato aperto per 15 mesi ma ha zero pazienti.

Citazioni degne di nota:

• [Sir Ian Whitchurch (funzionario pubblico)] "Abbiamo scoperto al DHSS che ci vuole tempo per far andare avanti le cose. Prima di tutto, devi risolvere il buon funzionamento dell'ospedale. Avere pazienti intorno non sarebbe di alcun aiuto".
  [Sir Humphrey (segretario privato del ministro)] "Sarebbero solo di mezzo."
  .
• [Ministro] "Alla fine della giornata, una delle funzioni principali di un ospedale č la cura del paziente." ... ...
  [Sir Humphrey] "Suppongo che potremmo formare un comitato interdipartimentale per esaminare la fattibilitŕ del monitoraggio di una proposta per l'ammissione dei pazienti in una data precedente".
  [Ministro] "Quanto tempo ci vorrebbe per riferire?"
  [Sir Humphrey] "Non molto."
  [Ministro] "Per quanto tempo?"
  [Sir Humphrey] "Circa 18 mesi" [Ministro] "
  18 mesi! Suggerisco di sbarazzarci di tutto il personale lě e usare i soldi per aprire reparti chiusi in altri ospedali".
  .
• [Reporter] "Ma stai infliggendo terribili sanzioni al pubblico innocente".
  [Leader sindacale] "Vorrei cogliere l'occasione per assicurare al pubblico in generale, ogni pietra sarŕ lasciata intentata nella ricerca di un accordo".

The Compassionate Society indeed!

Thanks.

Among other things, it's not that it's impossible because before you used different licenses...
It would simply be enough to merge the old license databases with the new ones where the username and password are contained, so that when the request arrives at the server, it responds correctly and allows the connection.
Think that I can't open the new software, and therefore I can't try the software because they gave me demo credentials, and therefore I can't try the platform.
Ridiculous.

And to think I was also buying an indicator for Ninjatrader 8 (which wouldn't have worked with the new ninjatrader)
A non-technological person sees on the site of the indicator "download for ninjatrader 7" and "download for ninjatrader 8". Buy the one of version 8 and realize only after that those ninjatrader geniuses changed its application with name from ninjatrader v.8.0.27 to 8.1.1.1, not ninjatrader 9, and thus indicator of ninjatrader 8 is not working on ninjatrader 8 new.
What should one who bought a ninjatrader 8 indicator do in this case?
I don't know whether to laugh or cry, since I haven't bought neither the indicator nor the ninjatrader, I will laugh.

Translated with Google Translate.

[Lancer]

New users will not be able to use 8.0 or NinjaTrader 7 as they will be unable to obtain a license key that these platforms require to work, nor will any new NinjaTrader credentials be compatible to connect to these versions.

I strongly disagree with this change. So often NT platform decisions go in the wrong direction, disregarding or opposing very experienced platform user preferences and recommendations. One great value of NT7 is that it can run concurrently with NT8 on a single computer. Two instances of NT8 (and probably 8.1 as well, although I don't use it) can't run concurrently. Now NT management denies this for new users. Probably at some point access will be cutoff for existing users like me as well, who use NT7 + NT8.0 every day, and that will force an account move to another broker/platform that can run concurrently with NT8. NinjaTrader would be a much better product if only NT management would solicit, listen to, and act on feedback from its experienced user community, and don't say you do that already because you don't.

[brucerobinson]

#jeronymite hehe that brightened up a rainy Saturday lunchtime. Haven't watched one of those since, well, they were produced!
Plus ca change.....
Thanks!

[jeronymite]

NinjaTrader_RyanS Such a lamentable policy that treats the user community very poorly. At the press of a key on 2023-03-05, without prior warning, NT 8.0.x.x and NT 7 are embargoed for new users. It might be argued that it could be considered reasonable for NT 7. But to deny access to new users to the then current NT 8.0.27.1 in an instant, and furthermore, to deny your vendors the opportunity to sell to traders who, for whatever reason want to continue with the 8.0.x.x stream, is both irrational from a business perspective, and utterly disrespectful of those who have committed to the company, and those who want to commit to the company with a grace period of usage of a known product. It is common practice in the IT industry to allow a transition period for major changes. This flies in the face of good business practice and respect for customers, current and possibly soon-to-be.

It will probably not be appreciated by many who do not understand British humour, but I am reminded of the episode of "Yes, Minister" (S02E01 "The Compassionate Society") concerning the state of St Edward's Hospital that has been open for 15 months but has zero patients.

Notable quotes:

• [Sir Ian Whitchurch (public servant)] "We've found at the DHSS that it takes time to get things going. First of all, you have to sort out the smooth running of the hospital. Having patients around would be no help at all."
  [Sir Humphrey (Minister's Private Secretary)] "They'd just be in the way."
  .
• [Minister] "At the end of the day, one of a hospital's prime functions is patient care." ... ...
  [Sir Humphrey] "I suppose we could form an inter-departmental committee to examine the feasibility of monitoring a proposal for admitting patients at an earlier date."
  [Minister] "How long would that take to report?"
  [Sir Humphrey] "Not long."
  [Minister] "How long?"
  [Sir Humphrey] "About 18 months"
  [Minister] "18 months! I suggest we get rid of all the staff there and use the money to open closed wards in other hospitals."
  .
• [Reporter] "But you're inflicting terrible sanctions on the innocent public."
  [Union Leader] "I'd like to take this opportunity to assure the general public, every stone will be left unturned in a search for a settlement."

The Compassionate Society indeed!

Thanks.

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

To clarify for all, all new NinjaTrader users will be using 8.1 as they will receive NinjaTrader credentials that have their account plan information associated with their login. New users will not be able to use 8.0 or NinjaTrader 7 as they will be unable to obtain a license key that these platforms require to work, nor will any new NinjaTrader credentials be compatible to connect to these versions.

[bltdavid]

Our goal is to have all new users setup so that they are compatible with the newest version and features of NinjaTrader. At some point these older versions of NinjaTrader and License Key system will not be supported (even if this is years away), so we are trying to prevent the need to have any new users have to go through any sort of migration.

This really doesn't address the issue.

You seem to be blindly ignoring the real questions being asked.

You have sunset the entire 8.0 branch for your brand new users.
You seem to be dancing around saying this, refusing to admit this
might be a concern to anyone.

Can a brand new user, today, become a NinjaTrader customer and
use 8.0.27.1?

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

You can find the latest version by logging into your client dashboard and clicking the 'download' icon in the lower left of the screen. Below is a help center article overviewing this process if needed:

https://support.ninjatrader.com/s/article/How-Do-I-Download-Latest-Version-NinjaTrader

[backtester831]

Hello,

Our goal is to have all new users setup so that they are compatible with the newest version and features of NinjaTrader.

You need split it into a LTS release and a new experimental release because NinjaTrader new releases always have tons of bugs.

Where's the download link for 8.1.1.1?

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello,

Our goal is to have all new users setup so that they are compatible with the newest version and features of NinjaTrader. At some point these older versions of NinjaTrader and License Key system will not be supported (even if this is years away), so we are trying to prevent the need to have any new users have to go through any sort of migration.