Can I have multiple connections to two different funded trading accounts?

[yeahdudeman]

Hello yeahdudeman,

Thanks for your note.

bltdavid is correct. All Rithmic based prop firms use the same broker technology adapter, which is represented by the Connection type known as 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage'. Each adapter is only allowed to make one connection at a time.

Please let me know if you have further questions.

Thanks. I’d like to suggest it be a feature one day where you can connect to multiple brokerages using the same technology simultaneously.

[yeahdudeman]

What is meant by the term 'broker technology'?

Let's discuss.

NinjaTrader does not sell data, so the data feed you get
when you open a NinjaTrader Brokerage account comes
from somebody else. That someone else is Continuum,
but they get their data from a different company, which is
called CQG, which gets its data from the various exchanges.
It's even fuzzier because I think Continuum's parent company
is CQG. But I digress.

NinjaTrader Brokerage maintains accounts, but they don't
have the inhouse technology to send your orders to an
exchange. Talking to an exchange is a very precise thing,
one way to do that is via the FIX protocol, which is a very
low level network based protocol to send orders and receive
updates about those orders to/from an exchange. This kind
of order technology, which also encompasses order routing,
is generally called the 'order feed'.

[It's not low-level like TCP/IP, or how Ping works, but FIX is
still considered a low level network protocol at the application
layer, not the operating system layer. The FIX protocol runs
on top of TCP/IP, just like any other application based network
protocols, like FTP, a file transfer protocol, or RFB, which is the
Remote Frame Buffer protocol, which is a protocol used by
applications like TeamViewer or Splashtop for remote logins.
No one really talks about these protocols, they're just too low
to really care about. But still, they are very critical pieces of
technology.]

My point is, NinjaTrader does not own the technology for the
'data feed' or the 'order feed' -- they have to lease it.

Enter 3rd party companies, like CQG or Rithmic, that specialize
in this middle-man software for data feeds and order feeds.

Larger firms, like IB or TDA, and probably Schwab, they own
their own data feed and order feed technology. They are
big companies.

When NinjaTrader was started 20+ years ago [Windows
XP had just been released and .NET was a brand new thing.
Recall, Sun Microsystems didn't want Microsoft to change
Java, so MS invented the C# language, which, hey, looks
a lot like Java] it obviously was a very small company.

Thus, NinjaTrader was designed around using the data feed
and order feed services of others, and those others could
have their own feed technology (like IB), or they could be
a brokerage front company (called an Introducing Broker)
like Mirus, Infinity Futures, or AMP, but those guys needed
to lease their data feed and order feed technology from
some one else, too. Again, enter the 3rd party company
that supplies this broker technology (aka, the data feed
and the order feed). Well, that's precisely what CQG
and Rithmic do, that's their specialty.

Around 2014, the broker Mirus crashes to the ground, and
about 6 months later, NinjaTrader buys the remnants and
re-brands it as 'NinjaTrader Brokerage'.

So, from the point of view of the internal design of NinjaTrader,
it is connecting to a 'brokerage account' using a very specific
'adapter' built for the underlying broker technology data feed
and order feed connection needed to 'talk' to your account.

Got an IB account? Great, NinjaTrader doesn't really care,
it uses the adapter for IB to 'talk' to your account, but IB has
its own data feed and order feed technology, again, not a
problem.

Now consider a broker like AMP. AMP's back-end to support
their accounts uses CQG. So, NinjaTrader has to use the
CQG adapter to 'talk' to your AMP account.

Today, consider 'brokers' like Topstep or Leeloo. These prop
firms don't have the coding staff to build their own data feed
and order feed technology, so they lease it from Rithmic, and
that's why NinjaTrader has to go through Rithmic to talk to
your Leeloo or TopStep account. Apex, Bulenox, same thing.

Also in the beginning, NinjaTrader made the business decision
to allow connections to different accounts, but this was only
possible if the different brokerage accounts used different
adapters, because the adapter technology (remember this
is 20+ years ago) were tightly designed to only allow one
connection at a time. It was huge can of worms to allow
two different programs to access and trade the same
brokerage accojnt -- remembers, the web was brand
new, but their was no mobile, so it was safest to contain
access to your accounts to one program at a time.

The best way for this containment to work was for the
broker technology layers to allow one connection at a
time -- that way, no one could get around it.

NinjaTrader decided to allow multiple simultaneous connections
to different broker technology adapters, and chose to encapsulate
this feature in their licensing scheme -- they decided to name this
feature the Multi Broker license -- and confusion has run rampant
ever since. The M/B license is not about multi-brokerage accounts,
it's about multi-broker technology used to connect to the account.

Anyways, it's all about the history of the product.

So, repeat after me:
"The Multi-Broker license is not about connecting to multiple
accounts at one or more brokerages. It's about allowing the
use of multiple adapters to connect to different accounts
simultaneously using the connections made through different
adapters."

The 'adapter' is a DLL file (or a set of DLL files) that embody
the concept of the 'broker technology' (aka, the data feed and
order feed, but esp that order feed) needed to talk to your
brokerage account.

Have you figured out that the data feed part is fungible? That
is, you can swap that part out and use IQFeed or Kinetick, but
the order feed part, that's the non-fungible critical part of the
adapter that's needed to connect to your account.

Clear as mud, right?

incredible info. Thanks a bunch.

[NinjaTrader_BrandonH]

Hello yeahdudeman,

Thanks for your note.

I have added your vote to an existing feature request to support multiple Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage connections simultaneously. This request is being tracked under the number SFT-4923.

As with all feature requests, interest is tracked before implementation is considered, so we cannot offer an ETA or promise of fulfillment. If implemented, it will be noted in the Release Notes page of the Help Guide.

Release Notes — https://ninjatrader.com/support/help...ease_notes.htm

Please let us know if we may be of further assistance to you.

[GLFX005]

Hello friends.

Am I able to connect to two Ninjatrader Brokerage accounts at the same time, then?

[NinjaTrader_BrandonH]

Hello GLFX005,

Thanks for your note.

No, you could have multiple accounts under one username but you cannot connect to multiple NinjaTrader Continuum/CQG connections at the same time in the Connections menu.

Only one connection at a time is supported for NinjaTrader Continuum/CQG connections.

Please let me know if I may assist further.

[bltdavid]

No, you could have multiple accounts under one username but you cannot connect to multiple NinjaTrader Continuum/CQG connections at the same time in the Connections menu.

Only one connection at a time is supported for NinjaTrader Continuum/CQG connections.

And, that's what you do.

If you (aka, one person, one entity) want to trade multiple
accounts at NinjaTader Brokerage, you must make sure
that all your NTB accounts are organized under one
username. This allows you to make one connection
with one set of username credentials, and see all
accounts associated with that username in the
Accounts dropdown listbox.

If these multiple NTB accounts are under different
usernames, that requires you to run a separate
PC with a separate instance of NT8 -- because
an M/B license doesn't help you here.

(But, Brandon gave you hint, did you catch it?)

-=o=-

However, if you do have an 2 different NTB accts
under two different usernames, check w/NTB folks
about combining them under one username, or
ask about changing 1 acct to use Rithmic, while
the other still uses CQG. They used to do this
in the past, but they'd charge a $10/mo fee if
you wanted to use RIthmic.

But, yes, you can use the M/B license to trade one
NTB/CQG acct with one NTB/Rithmic acct -- the
M/B license allows you to connect simultaneously,
and you'll be able to use a trade copier to trade
both.

-=o=-

Of course, if you do this, that means you cannot use
that instance of NT8 to connect to a Rithmic based
prop firm -- because the Rithmic connection is busy
with your NTB/Rithmic account.

[Conceptzx]

Quantower allows multiple rithmic connections, you have to select the data source connection to trade that account. Maybe it's something Ninjatrader could revisit for a future functionality.

Unfortunately their trade copier doesn't work as well as replikanto when trading different sized accounts, for the time being, I use Sandboxie and I'm able to run multiple instances. It's not perfect, but it's been working.

[stlrmr]

Please help! I have two separate funded Trading accounts I want to run on a PC with NT8 and Rithmic:
How can I have two logins into Rithmic one for Apex and the other for LeeLoo?

[NinjaTrader_BrandonH]

Hello stlrmr,

Thanks for your notes.

It's not possible to have two Rithmic-based data feeds connected simultaneously, however, it would be possible to have both configured in NinjaTrader and connect to them one at a time. This information is noted on post # 2.

All Rithmic-based prop firms use the same broker technology adapter, which is represented by the Connection type known as 'Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage'. Each adapter is only allowed to make one connection at a time.

You could run NinjaTrader on two PCs. That would allow you to connect to one evaluation service on one PC and the other evaluation service on the other PC. This information is noted on post # 4.

We are tracking interest in an existing feature request to support multiple Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage connections simultaneously. Please let me know if you would like me to add your vote to the feature request.

[JasonX]

Hello stlrmr,

Please let me know if you would like me to add your vote to the feature request.

Hi Brandon. please add my vote.

Thank you!

[NinjaTrader_BrandonH]

Hello JasonX,

Thanks for your note.

I have added your vote to this feature request.

When/if the feature is implemented, it will be noted on the Release Notes section of the help guide.

[bukowa]

Add my vote

[gaz0001]

Add my vote please to the unknown list that is never talked about again.

:-)

Sorry, I had too. Huge non believer of this secretive requests list.

[nosup4u212]

I also would like to add my vote for this to be implemented. My question is if I have a lifetime NT account and want to open an additional account will my additional account be a lifetime account as well and would that allow me to log in with a separate user name and key so I can use two services at the same time 1 on each machine? If not then Quantower is the next best issue without having to pay 1500 for another license

[stlrmr]

Yes, please add my name. We need a generalized support to not just two Rithmic providers but for all providers for all Prop firms.