Two Instances of NT8 in separate accounts, same server

[Hyper]

Hi,

I can install NinjaTrader on my server (I'm the system manager) in one folder,
or I can install 2 separate instances of NT8, each in distinct folders.

Now, I know that a process instance of NT8 uses the login user's
Documents folder as the root of the configuration; so with 2 separate interactive
login accounts, there would be distinct Documents roots in the filesystem.

Can I run NinjaTrader 8 in 2 separate login accounts, simultaneously?
Each instance would be individually configured; since each is using a different
Documents root filesystem, since they are in different login Windows accounts.

If not, why not?

If so, then here's the more difficult issue.

I am using Rithmic for NinjaTrader brokerage for my current Live account.
Let's call it Rithmic #1.

But I will also need to connect to another different Rithmic account,
call it Rithmic #2

I could try to keep things simple by using one NT8 configuration instance
running separately, in its own login account; and configure it for Rithmic #1.

Then a second runtime instance, in its distinct login account, and
configure it for Rithmic #2.

Both of these are running on the same IP address dedicated Windows
server; but in separate accounts, therefore separate Document root
folders.

That's as far as I want to go; without creating total confusion.

Can I do that; and what are the licensing and/or runtime restrictions,
which would be issues preventing this?

[edit] I write my own custom order entry, so if it's technically possible,
then I can code that up. I could even transmit information between the
2 running instances, using a socket; or whatever is needed there.
That might be needed since it might not be possible for me to do what
I need from only a single process instance; and so the connections
might need to be in 2 separate processes... I don't want to go too far
down a rabbit (or rat) hole here... Let's say I wanted to do some trade
copying, for instance... I don't mind coding those signals if it can't
all be done from a single NT8 process instance. Just sayin'...

hyperscalper

[Hyper]

I received this information from Chris S at platform customer service:

"To be able to connect to an account with NinjaTrader Brokerage using the Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage connection and to an account with Leeloo using the Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage connection at the same time you will to run NinjaTrader on multiple computers at once using different live license keys.

A live license key can only be used in one instance of NinjaTrader at a time.

It is not possible to have multiple active connections to Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage at the same time. This is true for Single Broker license keys and Multi Broker license keys."

I have a couple of questions:

Does NinjaTrader validate a license based on the IP address of the server machine ?
Why 2 separate computers? [edit] I could easily run a VM (virtual machine)
to assign a different IP address for those processes...
Why not just 2 distinct accounts on the same "computer" or server?

The Rithmic connection issue is another thing. Perhaps one NinjaTrader 8 PROCESS INSTANCE
can be configured on the Rithmic connection for one and only one brokerage connection.

But then why couldn't another Process Instance be configured on the Rithmic connection
for a different Rithmic account? Is that possible; and what would be the issue that
is isn't possible?

You can see that various permutations of runtime, server, licensing and other constraints
make me a very confused new user of NinjaTrader, but I'm confident that one day I'll
understand it better !

hyperscalper

[NinjaTrader_Giovanna]

Hello Hyper,

Thank you for writing in. These are all very good questions.

There cannot be, and it is not recommended that there be 2 instances of NinjaTrader 8 using the same resources or on the same machine, regardless of the location of any of the files or which Windows login accounts they are being utilized in. The 2 instances of the program can conflict and can cause issues with performance and is not a supported operation of the program.

License keys are verified by their unique string of characters. Each license key is unique and only one instance of it can be requesting data from the servers at any given time. If the key is requesting data on more than a single instance, it is in direct violation of the EULA(End User License Agreement).

As far as the Rithmic connections go, again, there can only have a single active connection at a time. Depending on the connection type, it can be due to restrictions on the broker/data feed provider and how the API was written for that particular connection. These items are not mutable.

The information that Chris provided about using 2 Rithmic accounts is correct. It is not possible to have multiple active connections to Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage at the same time.

If you are wanting to run to instances of NinjaTrader 8 without using a completely separate PC, then is recommended that you use a VPS(virtual private server).

Please let us know if you have further questions.

[Hyper]

Thanks very much for considering this apparently complex question.
You said:

"There cannot be, and it is not recommended that there be 2 instances of NinjaTrader 8 using the same resources or on the same machine, regardless of the location of any of the files or which Windows login accounts they are being utilized in. The 2 instances of the program can conflict and can cause issues with performance and is not a supported operation of the program."

Obviously, no system can tolerate mutual access to common resources
which are other than read-only. That's just basic to computing.

Surely, NinjaTrader platform engineers can clearly define what common
resources might be in conflict; when NinjaTrader is run in TWO DISTINCT
login accounts, with their own Documents folders, and perhaps other
distinct per-login resources.

If that were not the case, then a shared multi-user computer with users
who were unaware of each other; could not operate NinjaTrader with
confidence. Instead, they would need to operate within an isolated
Virtual Machine context which is a fully isolated context; and can expose
a different IP to the network, etc...

As for Terms and Conditions or the EULA, I guess I'll have to read through
it, but why would a legitimate trader be barred from using Multiple Accounts
even though, perhaps, a Multi-Broker license might be required, or some
surcharge to the licensing.

I have a legitimate Use Case here, and I'm sure there are dozens of NinjaTrader
users out there who have similar requirements; and who have found solutions.

Not at all trying to be a fly in the ointment here; but just to resolve a requirement
which I would have thought are just very simply explained; and simply implemented.

I'm just looking for solutions here and, like I said before, with all of the various
constraints, it is extremely difficult to see how I can accomplish my objectives.
I'm only bring this to the Platform support level; because it is mostly a purely
Technical issue; followed by possible Licensing restrictions, of course...

hyperscalper

[Hyper]

Now let me take another issue:

"The information that Chris provided about using 2 Rithmic accounts is correct. It is not possible to have multiple active connections to Rithmic for NinjaTrader Brokerage at the same time."

So I understand that you are saying, perhaps, something like "within a given NinjaTrader process instance" that it is
not possible to configure 2 Rithmic connections. Fine, then if that is true, I could either:

1) run the 2 instances in distinct User Login account contexts, or
2) deploy a VM to give a distinct "machine within a machine" with isolated context

and then for a "single NinjaTrader.exe process" the Rithmic connection would/could only be configured
for 1 Rithmic connection at a time.

If that's the case, then fine, that's a step toward resolving my issues. It would clearly be easier
to use 2 user logins, but then you have called that into question; and so a separate "computer"
or totally isolated machine, such as a "Virtual Machine" instance would be the required level of
isolation. Is that true? What is true here?

Also, I am quite happy to get a Multi-Broker license since I'm not at all interested in violating
any Terms of Service; nor any EULA restrictions. I don't want to cheat; just solve a problem.

hyperscalper

[NinjaTrader_Giovanna]

Hello Hyper,


Thank you for your reply.

Running two instances of NinjaTrader on the same computer is not a supported use of the platform. So, our development team would not be able to provide any resources for how to achieve this. Unfortunately, a multibroker license would not allow you to connect multiple Rithmic connections on one instance either, as this is a limitation of the connection technology itself rather than the license key. You would certainly be free to run NinjaTrader on two virtual machines, but as Chris noted you would need one license key for each if you are trading live on both.

Please let us know if you have further questions.

[Hyper]

Thank you ! that is very clear.

"Running two instances of NinjaTrader on the same computer is not a supported use of the platform. So, our development team would not be able to provide any resources for how to achieve this. Unfortunately, a multibroker license would not allow you to connect multiple Rithmic connections on one instance either, as this is a limitation of the connection technology itself rather than the license key. You would certainly be free to run NinjaTrader on two virtual machines, but as Chris noted you would need one license key for each if you are trading live on both."

I interpret this to mean that I need a Multi-Broker license and then I can (at my own risk) try to run 2 instances
each in 2 separate login accounts on the same computer system; or I can certainly run these 2 instances in totally
isolated computers or use a Virtual Machine to isolate; but that I need a license key to submit Live orders from each one,
and that I can arrange (somehow) any communications between them by my own efforts. That's Great !

How do I get these Live Order submission license keys? How much do they cost? Who issues them?

hyperscalper

[NinjaTrader_Giovanna]

Hello Hyper,

Thank you for your reply.

The Platform Sales team issues License keys and handle all inquiries regarding them. For information regarding purchasing license keys, please reach out to PlatformSales[AT]NinjaTrader[Dot]com.

Please let us know if we may assist you further.