Break out

[drolles]

I would have to agree with these comments below - this limitation makes writing a break out strategy cumbersome. Do we have confirmation a lifting of this limitation is now built into the beta of version 7?

[NinjaTrader_Bertrand]

Thank you for your input and feedback, this is already on our list for future consideration.

[drolles]

Bertrand,

Thank you for an amazingly prompt response.

However, let me make the question clear - has this limitation been lifted in the beta for Version 7?

I ask, as I am currently working on a break out strategy and I need to understand what functionality will soon be in place so I can (hopefully) avoid additional coding (i.e. code to switch between long and short orders as we can't have both in the market at any one time).

[NinjaTrader_Bertrand]

Hi drolles, you are welcome - NinjaTrader 7 will features will be announced when they become available, thanks for your patience and interest!

[drolles]

Bertrand,

Thank you again for the prompt response.

However, unfortunately you still have not answered the question; yes or no, functionality in or out - very simple. If you are saying that the functionality being built into Version 7 is not has yet defined, then be clear and say that.

However, if that is the case so I don’t waste my time and code something that may / may not be delivered shortly can you please let me know when the announcement you are referring to will be made? That will give me an indication when I can move forward on a solid base of functionality.

Thanks and regards,

Dan

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Dan,

We do not have that information available at this point in time. When information is available announcements will be made. Thank you for understanding.

[drolles]

Josh,

Thank you for your reply.

It would appear we have made progress; we understand now that you don’t know what functionality is being built into V7. Ok, fine. Though, a bit of a worry considering we were talking about having a beta released last year.

So at this time you are telling me you are not even in a position to give me a date as to when you will be able to publish the release notes of V7? Is that right?

As a support organisation it is your job to support us in the use of Ninja Trader; how you can support us (and am sure I am not the only one) at the moment is by helping plan the next 6 weeks of my time in a development cycle by letting me know which code / strategies I should be focusing on and what functionality I can expect to be in place within the next few months. Are you saying that you can’t help at all by even giving me an indication (e.g. this month, next month) when you will be able to highlight what functionality built into Version 7? All I am asking for here is when are you publishing the release notes, so I can plan my time. If you were the user community wouldn’t you think that is appropriate? Helping your user community to plan and prioritise in developing against Ninja Trader I would suspect would be a good use of the support organisation’s time.

Kind regards,

Dan

[RJay]

I am also in a holding pattern waiting for version 7. I don't even know if stuff I have developed will even work when V7 finally gets here.

I am dragging my feet on new research. I don't want to miss allocate my time and effort on projects that may not be compatable.

RJay

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Dan,

All I can suggest for you right now is to work within the confines of NT6.5. If NT7 opens up the possibility for you to do working orders in the opposite directions you already still can't test it in NT6.5. Whatever you do now in anticipation of such a major change would not be testable in 6.5 anyways so I would suggest you focus on areas you know you can do in 6.5.

[drolles]

Josh,

Thank you very much for your reply and suggestion.

However, it would appear that you have missed the point somewhat. Please be empathic for a moment and think about what you have just suggested from the development community point of view. You have just suggested that we go through a development, test, optimisation and deployment cycle based on the current functionality. A full cycle for strategy deployment by my experience and estimates is usually about 4 – 6 weeks. The current functionality base could well be changing within the next few weeks (or months – depending on where V7 is at – that’s the part we are unaware of). So if I was to put it directly, you are suggesting that we possibly waste 4 – 6 weeks of our time. As if the correct functionality is deployed (i.e. the lifting of the limitation of working orders in the opposite directions) in V7 then we would be able to use and test the functionality.

Therefore, if the answer is that release notes for V7 where going to be published next week, or next month, I would get on with other research and strategy development, not working on the break out strategy that I am trying to develop. However, if the answer is that the release notes and functionality listing for V7 is going to be published in 2 – 3 months time, then that would be an entirely different matter and would probably justify getting to work using the currently (read not helpful) functionality.

Does that help you understand the current dilemma that I and (obviously from posts on this thread) others are dealing with? Hopefully, it also illustrates the trouble that the lack of clarity round V7 is currently causing your development community (i.e. your key customers). Can I suggest that someone cuts through the rubbish answers that we have seen on threads like these and provides some clarity in the situation.

Kind regards,

Dan

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Dan,

As stated several times, announcements will be made when available. You are asking us to give you a play by play which we are just unable to do. When we are ready to make an announcement we will. Till then there is no more information I can provide. Thank you for your patience.

Also, anything you work on in NT6.5 will likely not break. We do try to preserve backward compatibility whenever possible and because of this the vast majority of 6.5 code will be able to run in 7 without any problems.

[drolles]

Josh,

Thank you again for your reply.

Below you refer to a play by play - no, actually you are fundamentally mistaken. I am not asking for a play by play what I am asking for – to use another Americanism that I love very much – is Information Technology Project Management 101. One of the most fundamental things you must do when running any project is keep your customer as informed as possible. Those at Ninja Trader appear to have left this most basic tenet of Information Technology Project Management far behind.

As I have many, many years of experience running projects of this type, let me provide you and the development team of Ninja Trader a little bit of free tuition; What I am asking for is basic customer communication. Your project is obviously behind schedule. You at this stage be clear with your customer what the expected delay is, and then provide a date for your next update. What you do not do is retreat into statements like “features will be announced when they become available” which is an obvious attempt to placate and keep your customer at arm’s length. You should credit your development community with a little more intelligence and go forward then to sit by and accept this. Such statements will only move you in a single direction – annoying your key customer base (i.e. development community); which I am sure something that you would want to avoid at all costs, is it not??

Furthermore, that fact that you can’t publish a list of intended functionality is extremely worrying. Any well run project should have had a rock solid scope long ago. That fact that you can’t publish the features and functionality that are being built into this release is yet another illustration that the project is not being run well and you are trying to avoid being accountable to your customer. Can I suggest that in the future that you publish this functionality listing first, have it agreed with the development community before moving in the to the development cycle? I suspect that you will need to select some representatives from the customer community to speed the process, as you will not be able to have the whole development community agree the functionality listing.

As for the second topic you refer to, the one that originally started this discussion, you have again missed the point. Not your fault I suspect – we are seeing the limitation of message boards as an expression tool. I think it should be left where it is. The others and I whom have posted here have made the point – this lack of functionality is a serious flaw in Ninja Trader. To be able to effectively develop a break out strategy is very basic algorithmic trading. We would expect it be to build into Ninja Trader as standard functionality.

Kind regards,

Dan

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Dan,

With all due respect, this is the last and final statement about this issue. When announcements are available we will make them. Thank you for your patience.

[roonius]

Josh,

Thank you again for your reply.

Below you refer to a play by play - no, actually you are fundamentally mistaken. I am not asking for a play by play what I am asking for – to use another Americanism that I love very much – is Information Technology Project Management 101. One of the most fundamental things you must do when running any project is keep your customer as informed as possible. Those at Ninja Trader appear to have left this most basic tenet of Information Technology Project Management far behind.

As I have many, many years of experience running projects of this type, let me provide you and the development team of Ninja Trader a little bit of free tuition; What I am asking for is basic customer communication. Your project is obviously behind schedule. You at this stage be clear with your customer what the expected delay is, and then provide a date for your next update. What you do not do is retreat into statements like “features will be announced when they become available” which is an obvious attempt to placate and keep your customer at arm’s length. You should credit your development community with a little more intelligence and go forward then to sit by and accept this. Such statements will only move you in a single direction – annoying your key customer base (i.e. development community); which I am sure something that you would want to avoid at all costs, is it not??

Furthermore, that fact that you can’t publish a list of intended functionality is extremely worrying. Any well run project should have had a rock solid scope long ago. That fact that you can’t publish the features and functionality that are being built into this release is yet another illustration that the project is not being run well and you are trying to avoid being accountable to your customer. Can I suggest that in the future that you publish this functionality listing first, have it agreed with the development community before moving in the to the development cycle? I suspect that you will need to select some representatives from the customer community to speed the process, as you will not be able to have the whole development community agree the functionality listing.

As for the second topic you refer to, the one that originally started this discussion, you have again missed the point. Not your fault I suspect – we are seeing the limitation of message boards as an expression tool. I think it should be left where it is. The others and I whom have posted here have made the point – this lack of functionality is a serious flaw in Ninja Trader. To be able to effectively develop a break out strategy is very basic algorithmic trading. We would expect it be to build into Ninja Trader as standard functionality.

Kind regards,

Dan

Please do not hijack the thread.

Original request was for breakout strategy development, not about the release date of NT 7.

Regarding breakout - there is workaround for placing orders in both directions - all you have to do is add additional parameter for entry direction, add a static field and run two instances of the same strategy - one set with "short" direction and another with "long" direction.
Once one is filled, static field is given some value, based on which - second strategy cancels it's order.

[drolles]

Dan,

With all due respect, this is the last and final statement about this issue. When announcements are available we will make them. Thank you for your patience.

Josh,

Thanks for your reply.

Though, I can’t say it is very satisfying. In fact, it looks very much like retreat to me. The good old “all due respect...”, to me it appears that the Ninja Trader development team are not showing any respect at all for their development community, that behaviour is at the centre of the issue I suspect. Below I have detailed the actions that need to be taken to show that respect.

Kind regards,

Dan