order management

[nightriderx]

so I am a little confused on how nt manages orders... so by default is a EnterShortLimit() function an atm function? am i able to cancel/change that order without atm? if so can you please direct me?

[NinjaTrader_RyanM1]

nightriderx,

No, EnterShortLimit() is a NinjaScript order method. All Atm methods start with Atm or GetAtm.

To change the order, just resubmit using all the same parameters except a new price. This sample can help work with CancelOrder() which requires IOrder structure:

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=18890

[nightriderx]

thanks Ryan.
I am a little confused about one part of the order management.
if I am long 1 position and then want to sell 2...why does NT first close my long and then shorts 2 (leaving me short 2)? ...is there a way to turn that feature off such that it does not close the long (just leaves me short 1)?
thanks!

[NinjaTrader_RyanM1]

That's the behavior for enter methods - They'll reverse by closing the existing position and opening in the other direction.

If you don't want this behavior, add a market position check to your entries.

if (Position.MarketPostion == MarketPosition.Flat)

[nightriderx]

right, so for me to reverse, I have to place 2 orders? one to close and one to reverse...?

there must be a way to do so with just 1 order...

[koganam]

right, so for me to reverse, I have to place 2 orders? one to close and one to reverse...?

there must be a way to do so with just 1 order...

Only if you use Market Orders.

[NinjaTrader_RyanM1]

Enter methods will reverse. All enter methods, including stop, limit, and stop limit will reverse a position.

If you want it in one operation rather than two, you would have to move to an unmanaged approach.

[NinjaTrader_RyanM1]

Only if you use Market Orders.

This is incorrect. All enter methods will reverse a position.

[nightriderx]

perfect. thanks!

[koganam]

This is incorrect. All enter methods will reverse a position.

Do you perhaps mean "if the positions are not protected by any Stop orders?" If position reversal can occur all willy-nilly, what has been the point of the numerous threads such as these, where I, and multiple others have raised this issue?

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=41883&highlight=limit+order

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=39971&highlight=limit+order

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=40022&highlight=limit+order

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=25473&highlight=reverse+stop

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=25852&highlight=reverse+position

For those bold folks that trade unprotected positions, I will remind you of the old Wall Street maxim: “There are bold traders and there are old traders, but there are no bold, old traders.”

Bold traders trade without stops. After blowing out an account, I have learned to not be bold; I would rather be old.

[NinjaTrader_RyanM1]

Koganam,

Internal order handling rules don't apply to market orders. This does not mean that the reversal behavior in market orders is any different than the other order methods. The posts you reference point to difficulties understanding internal order handling rules, and not issues with reversal mechanics in limit, stoplimit, and stop orders.

If the internal order handling rules prevent you from achieving your order submission goals, this is exactly why we have unmanaged strategies.

[koganam]

Koganam,

Internal order handling rules don't apply to market orders. This does not mean that the reversal behavior in market orders is any different than the other order methods. The posts you reference point to difficulties understanding internal order handling rules, and not issues with reversal mechanics in limit, stoplimit, and stop orders.

If the internal order handling rules prevent you from achieving your order submission goals, this is exactly why we have unmanaged strategies.

So are you then confirming that reversal mechanics, while the same across all order types, are only valid for unprotected positions. Basically stop-and-reverse systems?

As limit orders are not guaranteed to be filled; and are especially unlikely to be filled in a fast moving market, which is where one would most likely need to reverse quickly, using limit orders in stop-and-reverse systems is even worse than using market orders.

[NinjaTrader_RyanM1]

No, I'm saying that the cases you've shown are a misunderstanding of internal order handling rules, and the frequent comments to the affect that "limit orders do not reverse" are incorrect.

You're presenting individual coding problems as NinjaTrader issues.

In a managed system:
Cancel the working exit order and submit your entry order for reversal. If you desire a different handling, use an unmanged system.

In an unmanaged system:
There are no internal rules. Submit, cancel, change however you want.

[koganam]

No, I'm saying that the cases you've shown are a misunderstanding of internal order handling rules, and the frequent comments to the affect that "limit orders do not reverse" are incorrect.

You're presenting individual coding problems as NinjaTrader issues.

In a managed system:
Cancel the working exit order and submit your entry order for reversal. If you desire a different handling, use an unmanged system.

In an unmanaged system:
There are no internal rules. Submit, cancel, change however you want.

With all due respect to you as vendor of the product, what you are doing now is trying to confound issues because you are unwilling to admit that there are limitations to your product. All the more surprising as your answer above actually admits to the limitation, and even to the fact that you have provided an "unmanaged" option to handle that limitation.

As a user of a closed framework, the only thing that interests me is the results of what the internals provide: I could care less why. And what Ninja Trader provides (whatever the reasoning about the internal management rules), is the INABILITY to reverse on a SINGLE candle if one is using a protected order. I am pretty sure that I understand the internal rules just fine, unless you are implying that I either cannot understand English, or your documents are not explaining the rules correctly.

The inability to reverse on a single candle in a managed order entry is a DIRECT result of the internal rules. As a result of those rules, one cannot reverse on a single candle unless the position is unprotected. No matter how much you try to obfuscate the issue with your verbal gymnastics, that is simply how it is. Admit it and let us get on: If you have a position with no protective stop, any reversal order will reverse you: if you have a protective stop, then you can only exit and enter on the next candle, but you cannot reverse directly ON THE SAME candle. THAT is the ONLY issue.

I am done, because my next response will not be polite. Kindly refrain from ever again insulting me with a statement such as this one: "You're presenting individual coding problems as NinjaTrader issues." I do not have a coding issue: in fact, I have coded around this limitation using a switch to CalculateOnBarClose and OnOrderUpdate(), in a convoluted fashion so as to let me reverse on a single candle in managed mode. I could not have done that if I am such an incompetent coder. Does all the code that I have placed in this forum in answer to user's questions, really leave you thinking that I am incompetent?

[NinjaTrader_RyanM1]

Koganam,

I appreciate your contribution here and never meant to offend. I feel this issue still needs more clarification.

INABILITY to reverse on a SINGLE candle if one is using a protected order. I

This is simply not true. There is no limitation that prevents cancelling a working order and submitting a reveral order within the same bar. This may be true historically but not as far as operation of a live strategy. In fact, I sent to you a strategy that does exactly this and works as efficiently as possible to send the reversal order as soon as the exit order is cancelled. It also sounds like you have coded your own solution to this which is great.

The internal order handling rules are not a limitation but are part of the design of our managed framework. We recognize some would prefer a different handling and provide an option for that.