NT7 cannot run in virtual machine with networked Documents folder?

[bltdavid]

VirtualBox has something called "Shared Folders", set up at the high level of the VM itself, sharing folders on the host to the VM.

Is that what the OP did?

[bltdavid]

https://www.google.com/search?q=sql%...etwork%20share

Interesting reading, thanks

[bltdavid]

Is there a known limitation where NT7 cannot run when the Documents folder sits on a network share or on a non-NTFS filesystem?

Looks like there is a known limitation.
However, thanks to Koganam's suggestion, surfing through the Google results found me this link.

That link implies that:
SQL CE 3.5 SP1 supports network shares: No
SQL CE 3.5 SP2 supports network shares: Yes
SQL CE 4.0 supports network shares: No

As it turns out, I actually have SQL CE 3.5 SP2 installed (see attached screenshot) and have had it installed from the very beginning. I specifically installed SQL CE before installing NT7, due to some other issues.

I would suggest you completely uninstall NT7, remove the "Documents/NinjaTrader 7" folder to remove all user settings, then first install SQL CE 3.5 SP2, per instructions here, then install NT7.

In that case, using NT7 specifically with SQL CE 3.5 SP2, I wonder if you'd still have the same issues ...

[koganam]

Is that what the OP did?

That is the most straight-forward way to do it, and I am presuming that that is what he/she did. It is possible to map a Samba share, especially if the virtual NIC is in "Bridged" mode, and it may even be possible with the virtual NIC in "NAT" mode, but I have not tried either of those, as the UNC name provided by "Shared Folders" means that it is probably just Samba net sharing under the covers anyway.

[bltdavid]

... the UNC name provided by "Shared Folders" means that it is probably just Samba net sharing under the covers anyway.

Exactly!

I mean, Microsoft invented SMB anyways, so why would a SMB share necessarily be that different than a local NTFS volume?

Answer: they're probably not.

I suspect most differences regarding local vs shared are builtin into the high level app, for other high level reasons. Aka, it's a product design and/or marketing decision.

Case in point: SQL CE seems to have a specific issue, perhaps with memory mapping files located in a SMB share -- but then how could SQL CE 3.5 SP2 ever have worked? I submit the not-working issue really isn't technical one, but an artificial constraint builtin to SQL CE on purpose. (Which is fine, it seems MS wants you to move to SQL Express Edition if this constraint in SQL CE matters to your product.)

[Edit: Yes, I know a product constraint is just as real to users as a technical one. I'm just pointing out the distinction because the approach to a workaround solution varies based upon knowing if it is a product vs technical limitation.]

It's very curious that SQL CE 3.5 SP2 is reported to be a "one-off" from the high-level constraint of network drives not supported by SQL CE. Strange, don't you think?

But, hey, if it works, it might solve the OP's problem.

[bltdavid]

Microsoft invented SMB

Oops, that appears to be a common myth.

Both Wikipedia and this link (see Myth #3) say an engineer at IBM invented it.

[koganam]

Exactly!

I mean, Microsoft invented SMB anyways, so why would a SMB share necessarily be that different than a local NTFS volume?

Answer: they're probably not.

I suspect most differences regarding local vs shared are builtin into the high level app, for other high level reasons. Aka, it's a product design and/or marketing decision.

Not quite. Network drive mapping was invented in the halcyon days of DOS Network Manager and NETBIOS. It was somewhat enhanced with NETBUEI in later versions.

Network drive mapping was only later shoe-horned onto TCP/IP, after Microsoft was dragged kicking and screaming into the standardized wide-area networking world when they finally put it in Windows for Workgroups (I believe as late as version 3.11; it was a separate addon installation in earlier versions.)

There is then a translation layer that handles the packet format and translates it to hard-disk file semantics. So no, they are very different beasts.

Then, of course, there are also security permissions, separate for network access and file access, and ACL and other such arcana.

[bltdavid]

using NT7 specifically with SQL CE 3.5 SP2, I wonder if you'd still have the same issues ...

I just completed some initial testing.

Conclusion: Using MKLINK with SQL CE 3.5 SP2 is not a solution.

See attached screenshot.

[koganam]

I just completed some initial testing.

Conclusion: Using MKLINK with SQL CE 3.5 SP2 is not a solution.

See attached screenshot.

SymLinking the NT data folder does work on local drives. As expected, if fails if you try to do it onto a networked drive.

[bltdavid]

SymLinking the NT data folder does work on local drives. As expected, if fails if you try to do it onto a networked drive.

Yes, but to be clear, the underlying act of symlinking works great with networked drives.

Specifically, NinjaTrader suffers from the limitation builtin to SQL CE.

My testing tells me:
It is the fault of SQL CE 3.5 SP2 not supporting symlink'ed network shares that makes the access of the db\NinjaTrader.sdf fail. The MKLINK command doesn't hide anything from SQL CE, so it seems.

[But the symlink to the network share itself, in all other respects, seems to work perfectly fine. That is, MKLINK command succeeds, Windows explorer works fine, etc.]

[koganam]

Yes, but to be clear, the underlying act of symlinking works great with networked drives.

Specifically, NinjaTrader suffers from the limitation builtin to SQL CE.

My testing tells me:
It is the fault of SQL CE 3.5 SP2 not supporting symlink'ed network shares that makes the access of the db\NinjaTrader.sdf fail. The MKLINK command doesn't hide anything from SQL CE, so it seems.

[But the symlink to the network share itself, in all other respects, seems to work perfectly fine. That is, MKLINK command succeeds, Windows explorer works fine, etc.]

Agreed, but I never said that the symlink was the problem: I said that it was an SQL issue, which NT inherits. ref: your first response, in this thread, to the original post, http://ninjatrader.com/support/forum...56&postcount=1.

[bltdavid]

Sticky: Installing NinjaTrader on a network drive

For sake of completeness, adding this link:

http://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=2441

which is probably the "known limitation" alluded to by Jesse.