Fit for unattended automated trading

[mayham]

Hi,

Is anyone using Ninjatrader for unattended automated trading?

If not, what are the reasons that prevent you from doing so, what are the recoverability features that are missing?

tks!

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

We explicitly recommend NOT leave NT trading unattended. Too many things could happen which would require your manual interaction.

[richa61416]

I trade Ninja Unattended. I only check back at the end of the day, to ensure that the positions close out.

I use to get error from my Broker like when I try to trade 5 contracts, Ninja gets the error from my broker, puts me in for 5 contracts, but due to margins at the broker, can only cover me on stoplosses for 4. Things like that you have to be careful with, if you are going to trade too close to your margin limits unattended.

[mayham]

Hi Could you please provide list of some of the most common things that can go wrong which requires user intervention

[Elliott Wave]

We explicitly recommend NOT leave NT trading unattended. Too many things could happen which would require your manual interaction.

I would second that opinion. I've had a couple really bad experiences with unattended trading, largely due to unforeseen circumstances.

Waking up in the morning to notice that NT has crashed (out of disk space) and you're exit order was never triggered is not fun.

Murphy's Law tends to exert its influence much more when there's real money on the line, so its best to be cautious.

And whatever you do, NEVER, EVER use simulated stops with unattended automated trading.

[mrlogik]

I have created on some fully autonomous systems on another platform which I have left 100% unattended, but had some coded features which I intend to do w/ NT as well.

Make use of the SendMail() function in the event of some error you expect may need your attention. Closing a position error, losing the connection to the broker while you're in a position, etc. I have a secondary email address linked to my cell phone in the event of an error, which, if needed, can have my immediate attention.

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

Hi Could you please provide list of some of the most common things that can go wrong which requires user intervention

Unfortunately we don't have such a list. However, here are some hints:
- order rejection
- order canceled by broker
- connection loss
- power failure
- general hardware/infrastructure failure
- margin regulation (see below)
...

[brima]

@Elliott Wave

I've had a couple really bad experiences with unattended trading, largely due to unforeseen circumstances.

Did Dirk cover them all with his list or did you have anything else?

And thanks for your advice concerning simulated stops.

[Elliott Wave]

Yes, pretty much.

- order rejection (had this a few times)

- power failure (laptop got unplugged and the battery died overnight)
- general hardware/infrastructure failure (ran out of hard drive space and NinjaTrader crashed)

Once I accidentally left a position open over the weekend because of a discrepancy between the strategy position and my actual position, so when NinjaTrader thought it was closing a position it actually opened one. It was a pleasant surprise when I noticed on monday I was up 100 pips, but other than that, every other issue has been costly.

[brima]

@Elliott Wave and @all,

thanks a lot for all your precious contributions and to mayham for bringing up this interesting subject.

I'm going to start unattended automated trading in a couple of days and I don't like that kind of surprises. I'll keep you informed about all the "black swans" crossing my way.

Good trades.
brima

[ninjanewb]

can you guys tell me if the problems you experienced with auto-trading were due to ninjatrader behaving unpredictably? or was it due to something on your end such as insufficient funds in account or computer breakdown.

will ninjatrader just hang/crash all of a sudden?

[richa61416]

In most of the cases referenced. They are user based.
Computer Battery dying, Insufficient margin, insufficient Disk space, Difference in account Position vs Strateg position, all user based. Ninja did not crash unexpectedly. I have not have Ninja app just crash on me.

You will need to make sure take adequate precautions.

[brima]

Please could someone look at my logfile and tell me why my order at 16:06:36 was rejected. It says because of overmargining.
But actually there could no other order be open as I restrict reentry through Position.MarketPositon=flat

14.07.2008 15:57:08|1|32|Order='7548883e427c4bc9a9da3867d5bcbc79/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Sell short' New State=PendingSubmit Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=SellShort Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 15:57:08|1|32|Order='2183334/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Sell short' New State=Accepted Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=SellShort Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 15:57:08|1|32|Order='2183334/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Sell short' New State=Working Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=SellShort Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 15:57:09|1|32|Order='2183334/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Sell short' New State=Filled Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=SellShort Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=1 Fill price=6257 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 15:57:09|1|16|Execution='0037AW' Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Account='73674882!RCG!Mirus' Exchange=Eurex Price=6257 Quantity=1 Market position=Short Operation=Insert Order='2183334' Time='14.07.2008 15:57:08'
14.07.2008 15:57:09|1|64|Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Account='73674882!RCG!Mirus' Avg price=6257 Quantity=1 Market position=Short Operation=Insert Currency=UsDollar
14.07.2008 15:57:09|1|32|Order='9dfc3cfdf17b4d8582f52938aa88a540/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Stop loss' New State=PendingSubmit Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=BuyToCover Limit price=0 Stop price=6281 Quantity=1 Type=Stop Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 15:57:09|1|32|Order='2183335/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Stop loss' New State=Accepted Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=BuyToCover Limit price=0 Stop price=6281 Quantity=1 Type=Stop Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:06:35|1|32|Order='55d978e876454128975c299538329db5/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Buy to cover' New State=PendingSubmit Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=BuyToCover Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:06:35|1|32|Order='2184313/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Buy to cover' New State=Accepted Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=BuyToCover Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|32|Order='2184313/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Buy to cover' New State=Working Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=BuyToCover Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|32|Order='2184313/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Buy to cover' New State=Filled Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=BuyToCover Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=1 Fill price=6266 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|16|Execution='003FG0' Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Account='73674882!RCG!Mirus' Exchange=Eurex Price=6266 Quantity=1 Market position=Long Operation=Insert Order='2184313' Time='14.07.2008 16:06:36'
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|64|Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Account='73674882!RCG!Mirus' Avg price=6257 Quantity=1 Market position=Short Operation=Remove Currency=UsDollar
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|32|Order='2183335/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Stop loss' New State=PendingCancel Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=BuyToCover Limit price=0 Stop price=6281 Quantity=1 Type=Stop Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|32|Order='99dc4513b5a340059683eda4fec797ee/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Buy' New State=PendingSubmit Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=Buy Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|32|Order='2184316/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Buy' New State=Accepted Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=Buy Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|32|Order='2184316/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Buy' New State=PendingSubmit Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=Buy Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=UnableToChangeOrder Native error='Rejected at RMS - Available buy margin exhausted'
14.07.2008 16:06:36|0|32|Rejected at RMS - Available buy margin exhausted Affected Order: Buy 1 Market
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|32|Order='2184316/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Buy' New State=Rejected Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=Buy Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=OrderRejected Native error='Rejected at RMS - Available buy margin exhausted'
14.07.2008 16:06:36|0|32|Rejected at RMS - Available buy margin exhausted Affected Order: Buy 1 Market
14.07.2008 16:06:36|1|32|Order='2183335/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Stop loss' New State=Cancelled Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=BuyToCover Limit price=0 Stop price=6281 Quantity=1 Type=Stop Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:06:37|0|128|Strategy 'KaVeTrend' submitted an order that generated the following error 'UnableToChangeOrder'. Strategy has sent cancel requests, attempted to close the position and terminated itself.
14.07.2008 16:19:50|1|128|Starting NinjaScript strategy 'KaVeTrend/b56e648847c24a7e9e62af3f148877a1' : On starting a real-time strategy - StrategySync=WaitUntilFlat EntryHandling=AllEntries EntriesPerDirection=1 StopTargetHandling=PerEntryExecution ErrorHandling=StopStrategyCancelOrdersClosePositions Set order quantity by=Strategy
14.07.2008 16:22:46|1|32|Order='471c9101d0a244a4bf71cbc0f6bdad5d/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Sell short' New State=PendingSubmit Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=SellShort Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:22:46|1|32|Order='2185424/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Sell short' New State=Accepted Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=SellShort Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:22:46|1|32|Order='2185424/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Sell short' New State=Working Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=SellShort Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=0 Fill price=0 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:22:46|1|32|Order='2185424/73674882!RCG!Mirus' Name='Sell short' New State=Filled Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Action=SellShort Limit price=0 Stop price=0 Quantity=1 Type=Market Filled=1 Fill price=6266,5 Error=NoError Native error=''
14.07.2008 16:22:46|1|16|Execution='003PWU' Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Account='73674882!RCG!Mirus' Exchange=Eurex Price=6266,5 Quantity=1 Market position=Short Operation=Insert Order='2185424' Time='14.07.2008 16:22:46'
14.07.2008 16:22:46|1|64|Instrument='FDAX 09-08' Account='73674882!RCG!Mirus' Avg price=6266,5 Quantity=1 Market position=Short Operation=Insert Currency=UsDollar 

[NinjaTrader_Jessica]

Unfortunately, errors concerning margin come directly from your broker's server. It may be that this is a general error that includes many different reasons, but your broker should be able to tell you why.

[brima]

Dear Jessica and dear all,

I already talked to the broker and he told me that I tried to open a second position. But as I said, I'm working with Position.MarketPosition = flat whenever I make an entry. So the broker told me to talk to Ninjatrader Support.

My question is:
Could you please analyze through the logfile if there was still an order open when I tried to submit the buy order at 16:36:06???

One more hint:
I have a SetStopLoss(CalculationMode.Ticks, stoplossticks) in the Initialize Method. Could that be the reason and if yes why?