"Chart trader" in NT, limitations. Fix?

[ju1234]

I am posting this here primarily for the site administrators/ tech support to address these issues but if any users know how to deal with these, I would appreciate their help too.

I have been playing around with the "chart trader" in NT and found the following problems. My examples are for EMini contract:

1. Say I have a limit buy order pending at 1400 and want to place another order at 1401 before filling 1400, NT will not accept that.

2. Adding positions: say I am long one at 1400 with a T1 at 1402 and stop 1398 (ATM strategy). Now I buy another at 1401. NT will average the price of both, showing the cost at 1400.50. Also the second set of target and stop is added to the previous levels, 1402 & 1398 in this example. So the chart will now show 2 contracts at cost of 1400.50, T1 2 contracts at 1402 even though the ATM price for the second contract calculates at 1403, and stop for 2 contracts at 1398. From here on the two contracts cannot be separated. If I want to cancel the bracket on one of the two, cannot do it. If I want to change the T1 or stop price on one of the two, cannot do it. The two contracts are locked together. I cannot manage the two positions separately. Is there a way I can manage the two postions separately?

3. In order to place an order without the bracket (ATM strategy as applied in the above example), I have to cancel the strategy or apply a different strategy. Right?

To me these problems are real limitations of the NT. If there are no current solutions for this, the developers should consider developing a fix now so those who want to can download it as an amendment to the program and not have to wait till the next version release.

Thanks for the help.

[NinjaTrader_Brett]

Hello,

Thanks for the forum post.

1. What specific error message are you getting on the second order? I believe if you are using ATM you might be getting an error saying you cannot submit a second entry order. In that case you needed to go to the ATM Strategy selection box and change it back to your ATM Template (Instead of the Active Template name) This way you when you submit the second order a new ATM strategy will be started for that order and when one or the other fills stops and targets will be correctly defined.

2. Use the same method highlighted above, when using two different ATM Strategies this keeps them separate instead of merging. Furthermore you have another option to choose how you want to view ATM strategy positions.

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt7/properties3.htm

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt7/atm_strategy_selection_mode.htm

ATM Strategy Selection Mode is what you may want to change to get the display as you need it.

3. Set the selected ATM Strategy to none and now when you submit an order the bracket will not be sent.

[ju1234]

Confusing!

Ok, the terminology used is confusing to me. "Active ATM Strategy on Order Submission", "Selected ATM Strategy Template " "Selected ATM Strategy Only", they all sound the same. The video and the text instructions are not any clearer. Can you clarify the difference.

I will tell you how i have it set up.

First of all, i don't want to use the DOM, your instructions talk about opening more than one DOM. I want place orders from the chart.

I have set up a strategy, saved it as a template, call it ES1/8/8. The chart trader is applied to the chart, indicated by a down arrow in the right upper corner of the chart. I click the arrow to open the chart trader panel. It shows "ES1/8/8 in the ATM strategy box. So, any order placed will apply this strategy.

Now I want to place a second order at a different price using same strategy. What you are saying is that I have to cancel the ES1/8/8 strategy and create another strategy?

You say "change it back to your ATM Template instead of Active Template name. This is very confusing. In the drop down menu, there is no option of "your ATM Template". The only options are, <Custom>, <None>, or any one of the saved strategies. Essentially what you are saying is, I should create the same strategy, give it a different name, save it and apply this strategy?

Is the "active ATM strategy" creating a strategy and not saving it Vs. template that has been saved? The description of it says that "this will be already amended when you scale into position". Not quite sure how to do this. If I apply the same T1 and stop limits as the first position then it does not create a separate set of orders.

If I understand it correctly, in order to manage two orders separately, one must create two separate named strategies (even if the order characteristics are same in both) on two separate charts of the same instrument?

I wish you guys had phone help!!!!

[NinjaTrader_Brett]

Hello,

Ok, the terminology used is confusing to me. "Active ATM Strategy on Order Submission", "Selected ATM Strategy Template " "Selected ATM Strategy Only", they all sound the same. The video and the text instructions are not any clearer. Can you clarify the difference.

[Brett] Please see this page that breaks down each mode specifically, let me know if any specific questions.

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt7/index.html?atm_strategy_selection_mode.htm

First of all, i don't want to use the DOM, your instructions talk about opening more than one DOM. I want place orders from the chart.

[Brett] That is no problem, instructions relate to any order entry window the DOM is only used for example.

Now I want to place a second order at a different price using same strategy. What you are saying is that I have to cancel the ES1/8/8 strategy and create another strategy?

[Brett] When you place the first entry order with ES1/8/8 selected the template creates an instance of itself and names it Active ATM Strategy 1 - ES1/8/8. When you have the active template selected you are working with that live strategy instance. To go back and create a new strategy instance fresh you would reselect the template ES1/8/8 again (The one without Active ATM Strategy). Then when you place the second entry order it will create a new instance called Active ATM Strategy 2 - ES1/8/8. There will now be 2 running strategies in the drop down.


Let me know if any further questions, our webinars online we normally do 4 to 6 on ATM's to cover them in detail. This information is covered in our ATM level 1 and level 2 webinars.

http://www.ninjatrader.com/webinars

[ju1234]

Hello,

Ok, the terminology used is confusing to me. "Active ATM Strategy on Order Submission", "Selected ATM Strategy Template " "Selected ATM Strategy Only", they all sound the same. The video and the text instructions are not any clearer. Can you clarify the difference.

[Brett] Please see this page that breaks down each mode specifically, let me know if any specific questions.

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/h...ction_mode.htm

JU: Yes, I have seen this video and text, still confusing.

First of all, i don't want to use the DOM, your instructions talk about opening more than one DOM. I want place orders from the chart.

[Brett] That is no problem, instructions relate to any order entry window the DOM is only used for example.

Now I want to place a second order at a different price using same strategy. What you are saying is that I have to cancel the ES1/8/8 strategy and create another strategy?

[Brett] When you place the first entry order with ES1/8/8 selected the template creates an instance of itself and names it Active ATM Strategy 1 - ES1/8/8. When you have the active template selected you are working with that live strategy instance. To go back and create a new strategy instance fresh you would reselect the template ES1/8/8 again (The one without Active ATM Strategy). Then when you place the second entry order it will create a new instance called Active ATM Strategy 2 - ES1/8/8. There will now be 2 running strategies in the drop down.

JU: In the trading panel there are two boxes, one "ATM Strategy and has a little box next to it. When clicking on that box, "ATM strategy window" opens. My ES1/8/8 is listed in the drop down menu below the words "ATM strategy" in the panel. I assume you are telling me to not select ES1/8/8 from that menu box but select it by clicking on the ATM Strategy blue ... box and going to the ATM strategy window and selecting the ES1/8/8 from that window. In other words, I have to create the strategy fresh each time I want to add a new order. Do I understand it correct? If so, that is a little bit of nuisance and takes 3 clicks extra. Not a very good set up when one wants to place order in a hurry!

Let me know if any further questions, our webinars online we normally do 4 to 6 on ATM's to cover them in detail. This information is covered in our ATM level 1 and level 2 webinars.

http://www.ninjatrader.com/webinars

[pmaglio]

Just to clarify...
Wherever you place an order ( chart trader, DOM, etc ) you have to select the correct "ATM Strategy Selection Mode" :
Using "SelectActiveAtm...." will make all posterior orders part of the initial order ( addons, scale in, scale outs )...so you cant go long and then go short...
Using "KeepSelected" will start a complete new group of orders at each submision, so you can place bracket orders , etc...
Hope this clarifies a little more...
PS; in relation to your question "how to manage 2 positions separately", you will need to initiate each position using "KeepSelected" and then, when trying to modify one of the positions , select the corresponding ATM before doing any change...
Regards,

Pablo Maglio ,
The Indicator Store

[NinjaTrader_Brett]

Please see this video should help explain my text. Let me know if questions.

http://screencast.com/t/o9CD3aThMHm

[sledge]

Please see this video should help explain my text. Let me know if questions.

http://screencast.com/t/o9CD3aThMHm

Cool! I didn't know that at all.

[ju1234]

Hello Pmaglio: Where is the button for "keep selected"?

Brett: I have looked at the video you suggested. I understand what it is telling me. But on my menu, I have ES1/8/8 applied and have a position open with that. According to the video instructions I am supposed to click on the *ActiveATM Strategy ES1/8/8. From the drop down menu that opens up I am supposed to select ES1/8/8 (not the Active ATM Strategy ES1/8/8). But there is no ES1/8/8 in the drop down menu to pick, only the *Active ATM Strategy ES1/8/8 is there.

[pmaglio]

Right click over chart trader ( or DOM )...
Check this video : http://screencast.com/t/m37mRVTwEw

Regards,
Pablo Maglio
The Indicator Store

[NinjaTrader_Matthew]

Is ES 1/8/8 listed there before you submit the active atm strategy order?

Would you be able to create a video that demonstrates this?

[ju1234]

P Maglio: thank you. I see it.

Mathew: Well the problem was, the drop down menu slider is outside the computer screen (I think must be a software development problem). Yes the ES1/8/8 is on the list.

So, I was able to create and execute a second separate set of position. Two problems though: even with this technique 1. It averages the cost basis, which is not a big deal. 2. During management of the orders, if I bring the T1 or stop price of the two positions to the same price, they can no longer be separated. For example: the T1 for one was at 1501 for the second it was 1503. As the price moved in my favor, I moved 1501 to 1503. Now it shows 2 contracts at 1503. Little later< i decide that I should take profit on only one and let other rune, but I cannot separate the "2 at 1503". Solution?

[NinjaTrader_Matthew]

You would not be able to seperate these orders from Chart Trader.

If you have have two seperate limit orders working at the same price, you will need to navigate to the NinjaTrader Control Center "Orders tab" and then use the "+" or "-" column to increase or decrease the price of the order.

Once they have been separated on the Control Center, you can use control them independently on Chart Trader.

[pmaglio]

You can also use the option "Display Selected.." and then you can manage each individual ATM group of order alone ; select the desired ATM and only its orders are shown...
Hope that helps ; http://screencast.com/t/WGTZdxaAfi
Regards,
Pablo

[ju1234]

You would not be able to seperate these orders from Chart Trader.

If you have have two seperate limit orders working at the same price, you will need to navigate to the NinjaTrader Control Center "Orders tab" and then use the "+" or "-" column to increase or decrease the price of the order.

Once they have been separated on the Control Center, you can use control them independently on Chart Trader.

Hello Mathew,

Separating the limit orders works the way you described above but it did not work for the stop orders. How can the stop orders be separated?