Lot Size Setting in Chart Trader

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Can you please send me your database so I can test the ATM template on my end. You can find your database at (My) Documents-->NinjaTrader 7-->db-->NinjaTrader(sdf). Please send it to support[at]ninjatrader[dot]com.

Likely the file will be larger than 3 MB after zipping it, so please send me your database via www.filexpressit.com. Please put 'Attn Jason' in the subject header and reference this forum thread.

[ATI user]

did the following:
1. renamed db...deleted Log and Trace files...deleted Cache files
2. deleted all historical data from Data folder for Day, Minute and Tick
3. started NT without workspace open
4.deleted all instruments in Default list and added EURCHF, GFPCHF, GBPUSD, USDCHF, 6B, 6E, 6S
5.connected Kinetick Live, Kinetick End of Day, Zenfire.....opened old workspace named 'FOREX AUTO'...all data loaded fine (this workspace has charts that require Day, Minute and Tick (Range) historical for all instruments in Default list)
6. created atm template 'FOREX' with 0.01M qty
7. set all 4 charttrader charts to new 'FOREX' atm
8. closed NT saving workspace
9. opened NT....all charttrader charts retained correct qty for FOREX template...same as your test at this point
10. connected Kinetick Live...all 4 charttrader charts changed qty to 0.1M
11. closed NT without saving and opened....qty ok...then connected to Zenfire....qty changed to 0.1M
12. closed NT without saving and opened.....'FOREX' worksapce now completely blank...no charts at all

sending you Log, Trace and Workspace

[ATI user]

1. connected Kinetick Live, Kinetick End of Day, Zenfire
2. re-created 'FOREX' workspace from scratch
3. closed NT saving new worksapce
4. opened NT and all 4 charttrader charts show proper FOREX atm with proper 0.01M qty
5. connected Kinetick Live.... on populating charts, all quantities changed to 0.1M
6. closed NT without saving workspace
7. opend NT and qty ok at 0.01M
8. connected Zenfire...on populating charts, all quantities changed to 0.1M

conclusion: this is a bug....problem must be default qty for any data feed for forex set at 0.1M reqardless of atm showing in charttrader.

further issue/bug: to get correct qty for FOREX template I switch charttrader to a second atm template I created called 'TRIGGER'. I use this template from code to trade currency futures. Bug here is that charttrader does not change qty to 1 that I set up...instead it uses 0.01M. This allows me to then go back to FOREX template with the correct qty, however now TRIGGER atm qty is wrong. No matter how many times I save/create the TRIGGER atm with qyt of 1, it does not persist when switching templates

bug appears to be that version R3 charttrader completely ignores the qty setting in all templates....whether during loading data or not

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello ATI user,

Thank you for the detailed steps. I can reproduce the issue on my end as well. As soon as I connect to a data feed in NinjaTrader, the quantity is set to 0.1M.

I will forward your case to development to further troubleshoot the issue. Once there is news regarding your case, I will let you know.

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello ATI user,

Unfortunately this is a limitation of NinjaTrader 7. I have forwarded the request to have quantity remain on the quantity you saved to development to put it on the list of future considerations.

[ATI user]

the problem is bigger than just having the qty changed on connection to feed

you can not set and retain a qty in an atm template if forex is involved in anyway
1. open a forex chart and, using charttrader, create a template with 0.01M quantity...save it as FOREX
2. in the same chart, using charttrader, create a second atm template with 1 quantity...save as TRIGGER
3. change the instr in the chart to forex and the atm qty becomes 0.01M as it should
4. change the instr to 6B and qty becomes 0.1M
5. open atm dialog and edit TRIGGER atm back to qty 1.
6. change instr to forex and back to 6B and NT has changed the qty again to 0.01M

bug - you can not load forex data to a charttrader chart with out NT screwing up the atm template

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

When testing your steps, the order quantity did not change to 0.01M as per step #3 on my end. I had the newly created TRIGGER ATM template selected in a chart that already had a forex instrument selected (Step #1). If I change the chart to another forex instrument, the quantity remains on 1. When I change the chart to 6B, the 'Qty' will reflect a value of 1 as well.

Once you change the chart from a futures instrument to a forex instrument, the 'Qty' will change to 0.1M. The 'Qty' will change to 1 when changing the chart from a forex instrument to a futures instrument. Unfortunately these quantity changes are part of the limitation.

[ATI user]

market replay is another 'limitation'

tried today to trade forex mini-lots (0.01M qty) with only one atm template....no matter how many times I saved the template to 0.01M, NT changed it back to 0.1M every time I hit play and code made a trade

after 6 weeks of trying to get NT to work with FOREX, I am so frustrated I give up.

either someone at NT needs to sit down and make NT7 work for forex mini-lots or NT needs to post/declare that forex mini-lot trading is "not supported."

it would be great if someone would explain to me why NT does not just put quantity in AtmStrategyCreate and solve the issue completely. EnterLong and EnterShort specify order quantity. Why not AtmStrategyCreate ? Clearly it would be better to allow the user to control this issue via their code rather than NT's default code.

this problem together with the API issues with MBTrading (no tick data) and PFGBest (unreliable data) collectively indicate that NT7 simply is not suitable/ready for trading FOREX at all

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello ATI user,

Can you please tell me what order quantity is used for your automated NinjaScript strategy regarding the entry order that will trigger the ATM strategy. Does the issue persist if you use an order quantity of 0.01M in your automated NinjaScript strategy for the entry order?

Or am I correct that the entry order is submitted with a quantity of 0.01M, however the ATM orders are subsequently submitted with quantities of 0.1M?

Sorry to hear about your frustration. Unfortunately I am not sure why quantity is not defined in AtmStrategyCreate. I will check with a colleague that is proficient in NinjaScript.

[ATI user]

Hello ATI user,

Can you please tell me what order quantity is used for your automated NinjaScript strategy regarding the entry order that will trigger the ATM strategy. Does the issue persist if you use an order quantity of 0.01M in your automated NinjaScript strategy for the entry order?

Or am I correct that the entry order is submitted with a quantity of 0.01M, however the ATM orders are subsequently submitted with quantities of 0.1M?

Sorry to hear about your frustration. Unfortunately I am not sure why quantity is not defined in AtmStrategyCreate. I will check with a colleague that is proficient in NinjaScript.

this is the whole problem....you can not submit the order quantity from code using AtmStrategyCreate....this leaves you with quantity which you set in the atm template.....problem is, NT keeps changing that quantity...i..e you can save the quantity in the atm, call it from code, and in the meantime NT has changed the quantity...

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

The reason why AtmStrategyCreate() does not allow you to define the order quantity is because you can end up in the following scenario.

Your NinjaScript strategy is coded to submit orders with a quantity of 10. The ATM template is saved with an order quantity of 2. Your ATM orders will only close your position for 2 contracts and leave in the market for 8 contracts unprotected.

Since we use the ATM strategy to define the order quantity, you will not be left with an unprotected position.

[ATI user]

The reason why AtmStrategyCreate() does not allow you to define the order quantity is because you can end up in the following scenario.

Your NinjaScript strategy is coded to submit orders with a quantity of 10. The ATM template is saved with an order quantity of 2. Your ATM orders will only close your position for 2 contracts and leave in the market for 8 contracts unprotected.

Since we use the ATM strategy to define the order quantity, you will not be left with an unprotected position.

works for me....and has been flawless over the last 5 years using NT for trading futures only....problem is over the last 6 weeks working on FOREX, NT does not retain the atm template quantity as saved by the user....making NT useless for trading FOREX.

to reproduce the problem:
1. in a FOREX chart using charttrader create the 3 atms shown ..i..e FOREX, FOREX MINI and FOREX MICRO each with a different quantity
2. in the atm dialog, switch between the atms and you will see that NT does not respect/retain the quantity initially specified by the user...instead NT changes the quantity randomly...see 4th pic
3. connect and disconnect from any data feed and NT will scramble the quantities every time

useless for FOREX

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello ATI user,

Unfortunately I cannot reproduce step 2 and 3. I created three ATM templates on my end using the same order quantities. However when switching ATM teplates in the ATM dialog window, it reflects the order quantity that was saved.

When I disconnect and re-connect to another data feed, it does not change the order quantity either.

Only when I select a different instrument type in the same chart, it will change order quantity.

When you change it to a stock instrument, it will change the order quantity to 100. A futures instrument will change it to a quantity of 1. And forex instruments will change it to 0.1M. Unfortunately these changes are a limitation of the software.

[ATI user]

thanks...sounds like we have beaten this topic to death...and that the 'limitations' will remain

I do not get the same results as you for some reason...

on to other issues

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Yes, unfortunately the limitations included in my previous post will remain.

I am currently testing on version 7.0.1000.4. I am not sure if you still have version 7.0.1000.3 installed. You might want to check if the issues persist in version 7.0.1000.4. However the release notes do not mention anything regarding order quantities of ATM strategies in ChartTrader, so nothing changed in this regard.

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt7/release_notes.htm

Please let me know if you find a reproducible scenario regarding issue # 2 and 3 from post # 27.