NT7 Release questions

[djohnsonhot]

Delays

Yes, I am waiting and watching and did not realize how long things have been delayed. I am an unpaid subscriber who was going to buy a lifetime membership when the new release was beta'd and completed.

I, too, was involved in Software releases back when I had a real career...in the Silicon Valley. I worked for several large manufacturers. Yes, many times, we pre-released only to be beat up bloody and to a pulp.

So, in the end, if this does not drag on TOO long, then I am thinking I would welcome a more complete and functional piece of software. Right now, I feel that Ninja is way too memory intensive to cause me to want to order it for a lifetime of usage.

Ninja, do the right thing, and release a clean version that works out these primary bugs, and glitches and I will buy. In the meantime, for sure, I am glad I am not a lifetime holder right now as I would be mightily angry at what I see is a series of broken promises (again, based upon the foregoing below).

DJ

[RJay]

I would find it helpful if NT could list the features that they expect to include in version 7.

Then list the developement status of each and update every week or so.

It sure beats not knowing.

RJay

[trader1512]

this is the problem. we are basically waiting for the unknown. i just hope whatever they release brings some value to the table. they really have nothing to lose here, the majority of us are bound to the product because of our brokers.

[Gains]

Sunpost I hope you are right as far as being surprised to the upside but as others have said I would be happy with a rock solid stable release that was not a resource hog like 6.5.

I can't imagine it would take all this time to only add performance enhancements to a major release. I have confidence in the development team that they will deliver a surprise to the upside

My guess is that the performance enhancement issue is THE issue the team is wrestling with. Having done some coding myself I can easily imagine the scenario where the Ninja team thought they were almost finished with 7 but only then discovered they were on the wrong road. My guess (a totally wild one) is that the team discovered too late that they were not able to build upon the flawed 6.5 release and had to "go back to the drawing board".
Given that Microsoft keeps evolving .NET I bet some new ways of doing things were discovered along the way (I forget but wasn't 6.5 the first .NET Ninja in any case?). This is not a criticism, the goal posts and the entire playing fields are constantly moving and being redesigned in the software industry.
I inferred from the dramatic performance improvements Dierk announced about a week ago that the Ninja team had only just now made a breakthrough and realized an entirely new way to approach some issues.
With a project as complex as Ninja the change over to SQLCE alone could cause a chain reaction of improvements (code rewrites) if the team is not content to simply change the data connector and keep the old code. I for one hope they are taking the opportunity to totally revamp the core code and not just cobbling old pieces together.
To return to my analogy of the wrong road... the team might have been on a winding road through the mountains and only recently discovered that there was a straight, super highway going to the same destination. Unfortunately they probably have to go back to square one with the core of the Ninja code to take advantage of the newly discovered route.

Of course as I keep saying I am only guessing, and THAT is my complaint. Why don't we know what in the world is going on? Even something as vague as this would be a vast improvement over the Ninja stone wall.

NinjaTrader_Dierk: I removed a link to a competitive product. Thanks for your understanding.

EDIT: Yep, I understand sorry about that. Suffice it to say that the now unnamed product is due for a major new release later this year. My point in showing the link was that it gives their customers and potential customers something to cling to. It explains that a major rewrite from the ground up had to be done and it took two years to do it right. (yet to be seen of course)
How about giving us a page like that with some screen shots and the team's goals and expectations spelled out? Why the veil of secrecy? It only leads us to believe that there is no plan whatsoever. And if you guys are just coding by the seat of your pants instead of working from a grand design then we need to know that too.

Gains

[MicroAl]

No Ninja 7 for loyal customers

This is starting to get a little silly.

I believe we were first promised Ninja 7 in the last quarter of 2008, it may have even been sooner. I am sure many people have purchased Ninja with the expectation of more features coming soon, such as the ability to have more than one instrument on a chart etc.

I can only presume that the Ninja people are taking great lengths to make sure everything is working fine before the beta release and therefore there will be only a short time between the beta and final release dates.

The problem is that Ninja's competitors will keep releasing new updates with ever more features. Perhaps in future instead of waiting ages for the next major release, minor upgrades more frequently are released, instead of the usual bug fixes.

[trader1512]

the part that is silly is that NO ONE from ninja has responded with any information which would quickly put an end to this. you can speculate all you wish at this point but with the lack of information, i would venture to say its not gonna be good whenever its released or we are informed of whats going on.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

the part that is silly is that NO ONE from ninja has responded with any information which would quickly put an end to this. you can speculate all you wish at this point but with the lack of information, i would venture to say its not gonna be good whenever its released or we are informed of whats going on.

I did state in an earlier post within this thread that a personal response on the status of NinjaTrader 7 from me is forthcoming. I have been working on this and I will have it to you by Monday of next week. It will clarify our current development status and provide full disclosure of what you can expect to see in NinjaTrader 7.

[JS999]

I did state in an earlier post within this thread that a personal response on the status of NinjaTrader 7 from me is forthcoming. I have been working on this and I will have it to you by Monday of next week. It will clarify our current development status and provide full disclosure of what you can expect to see in NinjaTrader 7.

Excellent... we finally have an exact date on which we can expect to receive more detailed information.... no point in continuing this thread until then.

[trader1512]

Bravo

now i can focus on trading

[djohnsonhot]

Great

Ray, thanks for your reply and reminder to all of us. To say the least, there are a limited number of folks here but I personally know of at least 50 people on different forums who use NT and are not happy.

Once I see a satisfactory reply, I will lead them here if you would like me to do so. Otherwise, I will report the new to those folks in the form of a copy and paste or whatever you would like.

May I suggest, from years of being involved in rapid product development in the Silicon Valley (back to the PC days with Software) that you guys are much better off being completely honest and forthright about your anticipated release dates, both in beta and post-beta release forms, with dates that you know you can live with and achieve.

Ray, you are a hard working guy so thanks again. This is serious business and there is real money on the line with your platforms, and thus it is worth wait if you folks release a stable, fully functional and more refined product that can be enhanced - - as opposed to a partially functional and bug-ridden version 7.0.1 with umpteen releases shortly thereafter in response to a high tide of complaints.

Good luck.

DJ

[richa61416]

Thanks Ray. We will be guided accordingly by your words of what to expect and scheduled dates for release on Monday. Thanks for your understanding that we would like to have a clear understanding of what is to happen, and stepping forward to fillin the gaps. I am looking forward to the new product, and a continued successful relationship between Ninja Developers, and us the users. Take care. Enjoy the weekend.

[darthtrader]

I think you guys that have such high expectations need to give your head a shake.[LIST=1][*]I's a BETA. Yes, BETA. Gonna be bugs, And I'm sure the howlers will complain.

No doubt, seriously some of you people need to chill out.
I can assure anyone reading this I've been waiting just as long as you and actually had one project that has been shelved until NT7 and seems to have lost its edge while I've been waiting. Its not NTs fault I don't know how to make my own ATS from scratch and have to wait for them for the parts.
While I can't wait to get hacking with NT7, its still just a beta..They have never said a word about production release date..Its a bit odd to be getting angry about having to wait to beta test software.

[Gains]

No doubt, seriously some of you people need to chill out.
I can assure anyone reading this I've been waiting just as long as you and actually had one project that has been shelved until NT7 and seems to have lost its edge while I've been waiting. Its not NTs fault I don't know how to make my own ATS from scratch and have to wait for them for the parts.
While I can't wait to get hacking with NT7, its still just a beta..They have never said a word about production release date..Its a bit odd to be getting angry about having to wait to beta test software.

I agree that some folks seem to be forgetting that this is to be a beta release and probably have their expectations set way too high for NT7. But that does not mean the anger and frustration about the Ninja team's lack of communication skills - about the upcoming release - is not justified.
It seems it is a basic part of software marketing to always be dangling the carrot of a new release to help keep your users hanging on in the hope that their issue will be addressed in the next version. Ninja knows this and has been dangling the carrot of NT7 for at least 18 months.

http://www.ninjatrader-support2.com/vb/showpost.php?p=24818&postcount=7

They do this to keep the customer hopeful and hanging around and we do because Ninja has some fantastic features that we have come to depend on. There are alternatives to Ninja out there though and people get angry when they realize they might ultimately be waiting around for nothing and that perhaps they should have changed to a competing product a long time ago.

Gains

[tradinghumble]

We do not have a public release date at this time however, we will have more concrete information around the end of this month.

Wow! Ray, your statement and conduct is absolutely upsetting to say the least. Can't believe it. Enough of this bs.

This is my last post. Please delete me from this forum (oh, no wait, don't delete me, oh, no, on a second thought delete me!).

[chuckt101]

The best way to air out your frustrations is here --> http://elitetrader.com/so/?action=view&SR_ProductID=92

NT management does not realize that customer relations should at least be as important as the product itself. It's not like we're the ones paying their bills and their paychecks. Oh wait, yes we are.

P.S. I canceled my revolving subscription payment for the second and probably last time.