Bug in "Set Default For..."

[ChuckAllen]

Pull up a chart.
Right Click Indicators
Select TEMA/New/Set Panel to New Panel
Right Click in parameter window & "Set Default For TEMA"
Apply OK

It does put it into a new panel

Right Click Indicators
Select TEMA/New/Apply

The Panel option to put into "New Panel" is completely ignored &
it goes into the input series panel again.

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

This is expected behavior. Panel setting is not saved as part of the default settings when you go Set Default.

Reason is you can have a panel selected there where that panel would not work on other charts with fewer panels.

[ChuckAllen]

Reply

Sorry, but that is a drastic limitation that doesn't really make sense.
When I mentioned that somebody at NT should add a reasonable Default location for indicators instead of throwing everything onto the data panel, they said that I have to set it in the Default. Now we can't even do that.
So basically I was told that its up to your hundreds/thousands of customers to EACH go to Each and every indicator & setup either New Panel or Data Panel.
Now that can't be done.

So, everytime I run an optimization or add an indicator, It puts it in the price panel.

Why not just simply add a default setting & have someone at NT set it to an intelligent location? If the indicator usually tracks the price, set it to the price panel. If there is no way it will be close to the price, set it to 'New Panel'. AND Let us change the default location.

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello Chuck,

It wil not always put an indicator in the same panel as the data series. If you apply the ADX or many other indicators, it will be put in a new panel automatically.

You could also save a chart template, which will save all applied indicators. You can apply the chart template on other charts and it will plot the same indicators.

I will forward your suggestion to set the default panel.

[ChuckAllen]

Sorry, but it puts the indicators in the price panel on mine.

I just ran an optimization for a Start Date bug and saved the screen dump.
Please see NT-Bug13.Jpg.

Notice the indicators are in the price panel by default and have to be moved to other new panels manually.

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

ChuckAllen,

In your code, please actually specify which panel you want the indicators to be added onto. Please see here for how to do so: http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/f...ead.php?t=3228

[ChuckAllen]

This Is Not A Very Good Workaround

This will be fine for a very quick fix, but again, look at it from our standpoint.
Yes, it will work ( I haven't tried it yet ), but look at the hoops we have to jump through. If I am creating a new Strategy, I have to break into the code & add logic that should already be there. Now I cannot use your great GUI editor any more on that code to try other logic. Once you change the code, you can never go back. I also have to continually change panels as the indicators that I am testing change. So if I have 2 indicators the 1st time, but replace indicator 1 with another indicator...what will happen if they are hard coded? Does panel 2 exist? Will I get the same type of error as before...something like "invalid Panel number"? etc.

Same basic problem can be solved in any of several different ways.

*** Add a 'NEW PANEL' option to the coding...not a hard coded panel number (1, 2, 3,...). So it will be put into the 1st available NEW PANEL.

*** The proper way would be to add an option in EACH indicator that sets the Default panel to be the Price Panel or New Panel...AND...add the "New Panel" option to almost all indicator location code. Then have someone at NT use common sense to set the default location. If it belongs in the Price Panel...set it there. If it belongs in another panel...set it to New Panel. However, still let us change the Default Params to fix our usage.

*** If you can't do either of those, Change the GUI that generates the code to include where the indicator should be displayed...not just True or False to display it.

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Chuck,

Not sure I follow. Depending on the indicator code, you need tell it to go onto whatever panel you desire. NT cannot just assume you want it on certain panels.

For instance, add the SMA indicator into your strategy along with Stochastics. It chooses the panels just fine for both indicators. For indicators programmed differently if you want it on a panel other than the default selected ones you need to do it in the code.

In your screenshot you are using TEMA on PriceOscillator. This will definitely be shown on the price panel. The TEMA indicator is programmed to have Overlay=true. Overlay=true means it goes on the price panel regardless of what you have as the input series for it. When you use an input series that causes TEMA to be calculated with a scale different than the price scale, NT has absolutely no way of determining this for you before runtime. You need to use code and move it to a more appropriate panel you wish. Any indicator that does not have Overlay = true in the code will automatically be added on new panels.

As already mentioned in several of your threads, panel location cannot be set as default settings. It is possible to save defaults that do not make sense for all charts. When you try to load those settings that don't make sense on another chart it will break the concept. As such it is not allowed and not possible.

[ChuckAllen]

Reply

I'm sorry I am not making myself clear. I will try again to outline a very simple solution to the panel location of indicators.

There are several problems with the locations used for indicators...especially when indicators are nested within indicators. A very simple solution would solve about 90% of the indicator location problems.

When we use your GUI to invent a New Strategy...The second we open/unlock the code, we cannot use the GUI again to try another strategy. You only offer 'Plot On Chart' True or False...not which panel. So within seconds of working with a New Strategy, we are stuck having to code. If you do almost anything within the GUI it plots the indicators in the wrong panel. If you try to set the panel for the indicator, it is ignored. I have already submitted several screen dumps where the Chart after doing an optimization is worthless, because the Indicator has a range of something like +100 to -100 and the prices are in the 1200 range. So now we have to try to move the indicators all around withing various panels to get it to look right. This is especially painful, when you have the Real Prices, A Moving Average of the Prices, and Indicators that semi-track the prices, but I want them in a separate panel with my setups. When you try to select one of the indicators...Which one is actually selected??? They all are on top of each other. So you have to move one at a time to a New Panel until they are sorted out and then rebuild the entire chart & panels the way you really wanted them in the first place.

There is an Extremely Simple way to fix this problem.

*** Add the ability to Default where the indicators are to be displayed...NOT THE EXACT PANEL...which is what I think you are getting from my submissions. Allow us to set a default of either In The Price Panel OR New Panel. That's it! Then when we put an indicator on the screen, it will use our default. Very Simple.

Another import part is to actually use our default settings in the optimization chart.

Then when you plot anything,
If the default is set to New Panel
Put it in a New Panel
If the default is set to Price Panel
Put it in the Price Panel

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Chuck,

The panel selection of indicators is solely determined by the indicator code itself. If the indicator is programmed to be forced on top of the price panel that is exactly what you will get unless you further override it via code.

You are using an indicator (TEMA) that is one that is by default put onto the price panel as per its coding. When you decide to use it with a different input series that does not make sense with it on the price panel you will need to override it via code and place it onto a different panel.

When you save defaults you can't just have only options A and B as valid selections to set to default and leave out options C, D, E, F. Setting a default means whatever value is selected in the property grid becomes the default. If it is left on panel 5. That is what it is going to be set to. This cannot be limited to only "New panel" or "Same as input series".

As such, this has been added onto our feedback list for exploration of alternative routes that may be taken in the future.

[ChuckAllen]

Reply

I attached another example...NT-Bug14.Jpg.
All I did was run a quick optimization.
All indicators were again thrown into the price panel.
I tried to separate them out.
When they are on top of each other, its basically impossible.
So, I tried to go into the Indicator param screen to change their panels.

Notice: There is No selection available to switch panels.

I am really sorry that I can't get my point across about setting a Default for indicators to either New or Price Panel. Of course you can change the behavior by hardcoding it, or saving the Default (harcoded panel #) for a particular study...I am talking about the Default for an Indicator. When the indicator is first used...or in a dynamic environment...when a hardcoded panel does not exist...like optimization and/or backtesting charts.

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Chuck,

When you use TEMA on PriceOscillator it will always go to the price panel unless you further override it in the code. TEMA is an indicator that is always drawn on price panel unless otherwise directed for reasons mentioned in my previous posts. No further directions = no further action to move it away from the price panel. Further directions can only be provided via code.

Unfortunately I have no further ways of describing this behavior. You cannot set panel defaults to indicators to only "New panel" or "Same as input series". Allowing defaults to be set for the Panel selection is an all-or-nothing affair. You either allow all options as valid default settings or no options as valid default settings. There are settings in there that would not always be valid and run the potential of breaking when used on certain chart setups. Because of this they cannot be allowed. Since they cannot be allowed, none of the settings can be allowed for defaults.