Draw Objects - Tick Charts

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

The chart has since been modified and I cannot tell you what these original values were. I am willing to try to monitor it in the future. Is there any way I can save before/after by copying my workspace files?

Thank you for your efforts. To save before/after workspace files would require you to draw your object, save the workspace, go to Documents\NinjaTrader 7\workspaces and make a copy of the workspace manually. Then afterwards you would need to save your workspace again and then make a copy of it manually as well. You can also use the File>Utilities>Backup tool to backup the workspaces.

[mjc4118]

I have sent an email to support referencing this thread.
Attached before and after screen shots and rar of workspace files

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

mjc4118,

Strange. We unfortunately did not see an email come into our systems. Do you perhaps have the ticket # for the email you sent in? Thanks.

[mjc4118]

My mistake. I mistyped the address.
I just resent and received confirmation

[mjc4118]

Josh ..in your email you state:

Mark,
I loaded up all of your workspaces and the pink/red rectangle looks exactly the same on all workspaces.
Attached are screenshots from your LIVE and REPLAY workspaces. The same look applies to your Untitled1 workspace as well from both before and after.
Josh ... That tells me that the bug is in the SAVING of the data in the workspace because the PINK/RED RECTANGLE is NOT what I drew on my chart. I sent you an original screenshot that showed my chart BEFORE SAVE and EXIT.
So If you are writing the wrong values to the workspace file then it would pretty much explain why when we load the workspace the objects are redrawn improperly.

I can reproduce this issue EVERY DAY. If you sit through a session of the live market and apply/draw objects to the charts and save a chart image before you SAVE and EXIT then compare the two after you REOPEN you will see the same problems that i am having on TICK charts. It just takes time to do drawing of the objects and sitting through the live market. I know you all do not have a lot of time and you have many issues, but this is a real bug, not imagined


Mark

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Mark,

I will task a support member to test this, but will need exact steps. Please confirm the listed steps below as sufficient to reproduce the issue you are seeing.

1. Connect data feed
2. Open CL 09-10 250 tick chart (I know your setup used some special session template. Can you please provide the session template you used? Also, what timezone is your PC in?)
3. Draw a rectangle with the first anchor point on some historical data and the second anchor point some time into the future where there currently are no bars
4. Wait for the session to complete
5. As the session is done, take a picture of what the draw object looks like
6. Close NT, save workspace
7. Restart NT, look at what the draw object looks like, compare to picture taken in step #5

[mjc4118]

Attached is a screen shot of the session settings my session uses. I did not see where the session templates are stored or I would have attached it.

Also Attached I a markup of a chart that I did and a screen shot I took IMMEDIATELY after I drew the objects. Notice that NONE og the ARROWS actually are drawn on the CurrentBar, but on Bar[1]
The Arrow next to the text "MY ENTRY" actually continued to grow as the chart progressesd and new candles drew. I did not get a screenshot as I had an exception on the screen and had no choice but to exit the application and send in the trace files ... So I was unable to save an image that would have been of any use.

I know for a fact that both the ARROW LINE and RECTANGLE are affected by this odd behavior.

You should anchor the right most point of the draw object on the candle that has PREVIOUSLY CLOSED ... not the active candle, but bar[1] or bar [-1] anchoring it on one side or the other of the active bar usually results in the object being distorted.

Critical to the entire test is that TIME MUST PASS between the time you DRAW the objects and the time you SAVE the objects or exit the application. 30 minutes, 1 hour should go buy with live market data updating your chart.

It seems that anywhere from 10% to 30% of the appropriate objects drawn on a chart that are ARROW LINES and RECTANGLES are affected

Other than that it seems you have an understanding of what is happening. I am also willing to record a video of my screen for a few hours as the day progresses..the only problem is that there is no guarantee that it will reproduce during the period I record, and the size of the recorded file will be large.

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

I will task someone to test this, but please be aware the only relevant thing for this test is not how the object looks on restarting NT, but where the object's anchor points are actually located. As discussed in one of my prior posts, the anchor points should always remain exactly at the same timestamp they were drawn at. This can cause the object to restore with an appearance that it is drawn at a different time than before closing NT because of the way the x-axis is generated. The report we are chasing right now is closing NT actually changing the anchor points.

[mjc4118]

That is fine Josh, but if visually the anchor point of the candle is manually drawn on a chart on a candle closing at 10:30AM and I restart ninja and the anchor point for the object is 25 candles later on a candle that closed at 1:30 pm then I would strongly suggest that the anchor point was being modified by your application at some point. Either way I Just hope you find it no matter what you want to call it.

Thanks
Mark

[NinjaTrader_Brett]

Hello,

This is Brett following up here with test results.

I followed the exact instructions in post #21 and #22. Here are the finding.

The anchor point of the drawing objects are not changed via the restart of NinjaTrader. However the historical data on the tick chart has changed. Please see the following page that explains the reason for why this can occur and check out the section on how the chart can look different on reload of data from the historical data server:

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt7/index.html?how_bars_are_built.htm

Attached or the screen-shot evidence of the test. Before 1 and 2 are the screenshot of the chart and the rectangle properties. Last 1 and 2 are the last screenshots notice that the rectangle properties are the same however the chart bars are slightly different looking like posssible the chart object has moved when in fact it was the bars themselves that have changed due to be reloaded of the historical data server. This is more pronounced on a tick chart as the TIme axis can change with different time stamped data. You wont notice this much for example on a minute or daily chart however you notice this more on a tick/range/volume based charts due to the nature of the bars.

Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

[mjc4118]

Brett/Josh.

Respectfully I understand exactly what you are saying and I expect the behavior that you described because I understand how you have made your anchors. However....
I still believe there is another issue here not related to the behavior that you are seeing.., and that you are being blinded by this because you think we/I do not understand that there will be minor differences due to the time stamping and historical data Again please look at the original chart samples I sent you, and I quote from my original post:

The right most anchor for rectangle object # 2 was MOVED (visually) to 16:56 from its original 12:23...and I say moved because I drew on CLOSED bars that SHOULD have already had correct X Axis generation completed and there are about 75 or so bars drawn BETWEEN where I originally anchored the object and where it (visually) REDREW.

A time difference of 4 hours and 75 physical candles IS NOT caused by historical data differences and if it is then you have a serious logic flaw.

Additionally. this even occurs once I RESTART and Before I reconnect to my data provider and I have "Save Chart Data as historical Checked" in my settings" So there should be no discrepancy between historical and saved data. And if there was then there is a serious logic flaw in saving the time stamps if it results in a 4 hour and 75 candle discrepancy.

I have been involved in software development for the last 20 years. I understand how easily it is for you you to discount what I am trying to describe because of what you understand and what you believe I as an end user do not understand.

Ask yourself seriously if there should be a 4 hour and/or 75 candle difference in draw objects visual representation..if the answer is yes. then I simply refuse to keep banging my head against the wall. There is no logic chain that would dictate that as a logical outcome even considering the nuances of historical data which I fully understand and am even willing to provide adequate discrepancy allowance for.

[mjc4118]

I have spent a little more time on this and honestly believe I have truly Identified the issue. I believe that you should have been able to identify this also, and I think it also falls into the realm of "bug issue". It appears that the Actual Saving and loading the drawing object data on the charts is not the issue. The issue is in the actual calculation of the Anchor point for the right anchor of the draw objects.

Even when drawing on CLOSED candles where the time has already passed I am seeing some STRANGE anchor points being calculated and put in the "DATA: for the object.

3 examples are included. Today I drew 4 objects. 3 of the 4 objects selected anchor points for the right anchor that were not even close to the actual "TIME" that the draw objects anchors should have terminated on.

I drew the following 3 objects on a chart in a very short time fram. 2 of the objects were drawn in the "PAST" where bars had already closed. One object was drawn oth the currently building bar.


All 3 objects had anchor points that visually did not match with the chart at the time the objects were drawn

I have attached a screen shot and the "DATA" boxes for the objects. If you look on the source chart "at the time the objects were drawn" then you clearly see that the objects terminate WELL BEFORE the time specified in the anchor point time stamp.

Please consider looking for possible issues on tick charts when these anchor points are calculated. We should not see an anchor poit calculated 3 5 10 or 20 minutes of the actual "ANCHOR" for the object. Especially when we have 6 or 7 or 75 better bars to anchor to.

The issue is NOT in the difference in historical data. The difference is in the ANCHOR TIME that is calculated does not match the TRUE ANCHOR TIME shown in the visual representation of the chart at the time of creating the draw objects.

Please look at the screen shot sample for clarification.

[NinjaTrader_Brett]

Hello,

I will be retesting this again today with your settings. Can you please send a note to support at ninjatrader dot com and reference this forum post and put ATTN: Brett in the subject line.

Can you please send me your workspace that is causing this to occur as an attachment. Before sending the workspace please be sure to remove any charts or other windows that does not relate to the issue is occuring.

My Documents->NinjaTrader 7 ->Workspaces->YourWorkspaceName.xml

I look forward to assisting you further.

[NinjaTrader_Brett]

Hello,

When you get a chance please send in your workspace in so that I can duplicate your setup and I can test this again.

I look forward to assisting you further.

[kinderlich]

On ninja beta 7.0.0.21 (really on all versions of ninja 7 )

The save representation problem extends to the time base charts also. The simplest example is the daily chart. For instance, here is 3000 days of JNJ (from the kinetic free EOD data service) (completely default parameters, no user changes at all).

http://screencast.com/t/YWU5MmIyY

Notice the future dates are already distorted as in the year 2012 takes up less horizontal space than the past year (say 2009).

So if you have an object , say an ellipse with well defined width, lets say 2years or 500 trading days

http://screencast.com/t/YzY5NWU1O

now copy this object and move it so it crosses the pressent time. and right click on the new object to show the data parameters.

http://screencast.com/t/MTE1NzZjZWQt

notice, the right side of the ellipse is defined as occurring in 2014! This is just wrong, the object is only two years wide. And note all is well until you save and restore the workspace, as in the saved workspace uses this right edge of the object in 2014 data which is wrong! .

The saved objects will distort as more time bars come in. Conceptually imagine time passes and its two years in the future (2012). The elipse 'should' end, but the save representation has the right end of the object in 2014 (which is 2 years later from that point), so visually the object will be stretched (distorted) incorrectly.

This is why when saving and restoring workspaces, objects are always subtly distorted as time passes and new data bars arrive (the more time passes, the more distorted).

Consider this a bug report and send it to the technical person who can fix this.. (your competitor, oecry, uses as a save representation: left time stamp + bars offset, which is one way of solving the problem).