axis scaling

[Mindset]

any idea what might cause this?
No indicators on chart and I have reloaded data.
If I start a new chart everything is normal without the enormous white space below.
Also I note that if I now scroll the Y axis I can scroll beyond displaying the last bar on chart - doesn't bother me but in case no one else has reported it.
Edit - mmm - I changed no of bars back and it solved itself at the second attempt.

[Mindset]

axis scaling update

ok - it seems that when we are in an uptrend the bars eventually go off the top of the chart and no amount of moving the Y or X axis reduces the lower white space.
I have to change the data series to get the scaling to reset itself to go from bottom left to top right.
I am assuming the reverse for a downtrend but can't confirm that.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

You have set the vertical axis to "Fixed" by scrolling in the y-axis. Press the "F" in the top right hand corner to bring it back to AutoScale mode.

[Alfred]

What precise advantage is there with having the vertical scaling options set up as you have them now vs as they are 6.5...??...

Say you increase the top and bottom margins...then if you then scroll back on the chart you can quickly lose chart info off the screen...or alternately miss new highs and lows....

Or say you increase top and bottom margins to place a chart trader limit order above or below (or perhaps to look at a graphic indicators price levels above or below)...then you will not see price move to new highs or lows until you hit the F box...or often I will increase top and bottom margins to bring overall chart patterns into a tighter visual range for evaluation...but you do not want to miss new highs or lows when you do this...

I just do not see the advantage or logic of this over the way it was done in 6.5 where if one increased the margins top and bottom the chart still updated correctly top and bottom...

I think the 6.5 vertical scaling method is much better...and even it could be improved ....by dividing the right price margin area into 3 regions...if you grab the top 1/3 region you could increase the top margin (and similar for grabbing the bottom 1/3 region) or if you grab the middle region you increase or decrease both top and bottom....and have an R box to hit to restore all...

Thanks....

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

In short, we got a serious large demand for how it is implemented in NT7. Fixed scaling. We decided that the demand was large enough to implement. I do understand what users are asking for which is a Fixed Range whose upper/lower limits would change. I will give this some consideration.

[Mindset]

Fixed region

Thanks Ray.
Seasons Greetings.

[Alfred]

In short, we got a serious large demand for how it is implemented in NT7. Fixed scaling. We decided that the demand was large enough to implement. I do understand what users are asking for which is a Fixed Range whose upper/lower limits would change. I will give this some consideration.

OK...but from what sort of users is that demand for Fixed scaling (for example) coming from ?? .....A lot of stuff that has high demand is simply not that great (lowest common denominator sort of thing)....the really good stuff will usually have very little demand...with a huge population of users as in Ninja the majority of the population are going to be the B, C, D and F students...so you can get a lot of demand from that area of the bell curve....just a thought....I do not know my own grade level thankfully...

[Harry]

There is another thread which shows that a number of NT 6.5. users have the same problem.

http://www.ninjatrader-support2.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23680

While the fixed mode is an improvement, it destroyed the useful feature of having a top and bottom margin along with Autoscale. Most professional traders will know that some top, bottom and right margin are required for not distorting the chart and that this allows for imagination of larger moves beyond the current price area.

So we had that comfort with NT 6.5. and we would like to keep it! Of course I can unfix the chart, scroll horizontally and then reestablish upper and lower margin. Makes 3 steps where NT 6.5. offered a 1-step-solution.

This is definitely not a major or important issue, but you are taking away a little goodie that we are used to!

[VTtrader]

Alfred,
Fixed scaling keeps a constant number of ticks visible on the chart, not just extra margin. The advantage for some is that it keeps a consistent frame of reference for market action. With a fixed scale you can tell at a glance how fast a trend is moving without first having to know what the scale is. IOW, if a trend or ema is pointing at 2:00 on the screen that will always represent a specific number of ticks over a given amount of time. For visual traders that can be extremely important, because you're able to see the speed of the trend. With an auto-scaled chart, you don't know what that visual angle means without first checking the scale.

Having said that, I would like to see an option for auto-centering on last price, or perhaps auto-scrolling to keep the last price in the visual area. Or maybe a "center" button to click.

Just my opinion.

VT

[Alfred]

Fixed Scaling...A Review and Recomendations...

Here is a link to a video I recently completed looking at some aspects of "Fixed Scaling"...a schematic review and recomendations...

http://www.screencast.com/t/MTNmYmMzNjEt

Why is this "new concept" of "Fixed Scaling" being imposed upon everyone ??...in my view...offer an option in Properties to turn this off and return to the 6.5 method of scaling.

I can glance at a tick chart and see how fast things are moving with relation to seconds charts, without the current blanket implementation of the very mediocre "Fixed Scaling" technique...

I am familiar with all other methods of scaling...center last price etc.
The 6.5 method worked just fine. My view..if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

To have prices move through the top or bottom of the chart when trading live is simply inexcusable. There is enough to be aware of without having to be concerned with this possibility,to continually monitor it, and then having to blow time to mess around to correct a chart (with some method) to see where you are at...continually going back and forth between fixed and auto scale...is this really something called innovation ??

Thanks...

[Mindset]

Alfred's idea

Ray
Let me add my weight behind this change that Alfed suggests.
In practice I am constantly adjusting charts as they run off the top or bottom of the panel and it really is a backward move IMHO.
Also it has some quirks that are just plain annoying and as others have said - if it aint broke...

[Alfred]

Here is what can happen with this fixed scale thing...I had shrunk the top and bottom of a chart to get a better view of the range....that put it in Fixed Scale mode...then turning away a bit and then glancing at the chart again saw the first screen shot below...prices trading off the chart and with no notification...the second screen shot is after correcting Fixed scale.....you just do not need this sort of thing to happen...

I continue to believe this Fixed Scale thing ...the way it is done here...is a very poor idea to automatically force upon all users...

Thanks...

[aslane]

I have said it before in other threads, but I am adding here as well: The current fixed scaling implementation is not very useful at best. It is definitely not a replacement for what was in 6.5.

The implementation should either have a fixed number of ticks on the chart or a fixed number of ticks per inch (my pref). Each has pros and cons based on if you resize your windows regularly. This in no way determines the min AND max values on the chart. Instead, the min and max values should be set by price combined with the scale.

There needs to be some kind of auto-scrolling. Auto-center has its own issues because you tend to get half of the chart as white space during moves. Instead, the chart bounds should be adjusted as price comes in, with the goal of keeping the last price on the chart.

Finally, the user should be able to grab price with the mouse and move it up/down/left/right, with up/down affecting the chart bounds.

You could also allow the fixed scaling to be modified with mouse drags in the right axis, but I would be ok with only being able to set in properties. If you wanted to allow temporary changes, then you could put the little "F" in there to swap it back, but again I would be ok with out this.

The bottom line is people looking for this feature want a "fixed scaling" not a "fixed bounds".

[VTtrader]

In 6.5 dragging the y-axis would basically set a top and bottom margin and then it would auto-scale within those margins. It seems to me that would best be set in chart properties. I like having some space at the top and bottom for drawing trendlines, and so it doesn't look like the last prices is running off the chart when making new highs/lows.

I like having a fixed scale because it allows me to judge trend strength based on a consistent angle, I can tell from across the room how fast a trend is moving based on it's angle on the screen, without having to know the scale. However, anytime you fix the y-axis scale you will run into issues with keeping prices on the chart. You can either auto-scale the x-axis (really bad idea IMO). You can set the scale to account for every possible market move over the charts time span, which means that under normal or slow times prices will appear as a very thin line. Or you have to deal with prices running off the chart somewhere.

Since I trade the right-side of the chart, that is the price that I feel should stay on the chart. So some sort of auto-scrolling option would be best. Regardless of Auto-scroll options, unusual moves will prevent prices from going all the way to the left edge of the chart, but that is life with fixed scaling.

My optimal solution would be to have top/bottom margins set as a chart property. Then have the option to use auto or fixed scaling. With the option to choose either, "keep last price on chart" or "auto-center last price".

VT

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Guys,

I am following, listening to this thread...

- VTrader, adding upper/lower margin properties (likely at the panel per scale) level is an option however, I am not sure this resolves what people are looking for...

In 6.5

- As you scroll the y-axis, margin is added top and bottom
- However, this margin is not a "keep out area" in that prices can move into these margin areas
- So, as you scale, the automatic scaling of data respects the added upper/lower margin but as soon as the current price penetrates these margins, the automatic scale range is reset internally

Correct me if I am wrong (those who want to see 6.5 behaviour) but am I to understand that the margin is not the entire issue but you WOULD want to see price action be able to penetrate these margin areas?