Important Poll: Everyone Please Respond

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

- The painting/graphics are rendered on a timer
- The underlying data that is used for rendering updates immediately which includes the most recent bar
- The the larger % of performance issues is a result of frequent repainting

I am not sure I can make it any more clear than this.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

We have discussed this internally and have come to the conclusion that we will add the chart update refresh parameter back in. It will be fully configureable with a min threshold of 100 ms. We have elected to put in what we feel is a reasonable threshold to ensure that our users have top level performance.

[JS999]

We have discussed this internally and have come to the conclusion that we will add the chart update refresh parameter back in. It will be fully configureable with a min threshold of 100 ms. We have elected to put in what we feel is a reasonable threshold to ensure that our users have top level performance.

Great, thanks - I think that this should resolve the issue, at least for me.

[Breakeven]

Thank you

[Eagle]

We have discussed this internally and have come to the conclusion that we will add the chart update refresh parameter back in. It will be fully configureable with a min threshold of 100 ms. We have elected to put in what we feel is a reasonable threshold to ensure that our users have top level performance.

Thank you Ray, I feel it makes sense for users to be in control of this setting , if performance becomes an issue they can always change it.
Taking it away totally limits the flexibility of Ninja which you are bringing in through some new features. The one hand giveth .... the other taketh away ....

Glad to see youre on our side

[aslane]

You might consider moving this down to 30ms, allowing ~30 frames per sec.

[aslane]

I have some indicators with custom plots, and a plot can be triggered by some event calling invalidate(). In this case, would the chart be repainted immediately or would it use the configured delay?

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

I have some indicators with custom plots, and a plot can be triggered by some event calling invalidate(). In this case, would the chart be repainted immediately or would it use the configured delay?

Repaint immediately.

[aslane]

Repaint immediately.

Thats perfect!

[theLonelyTrader]

Wonderful

You've made a lot of people very happy today...even the lurkers.

[cclsys]

Am now curious: if the software is processing and updating all indicators/strategies etc. tick by tick (which I was very happy to read far down in the thread), how much significant extra processing is involved in updating the chart at the same time? I suspect not much since most of the work is in running the scripts, no?

Suggestion: assuming this concern is the issue, would it be possible to have the chart's price bar update tick by tick even if other indicators on the chart including paintbar colors etc. only update every 500 ms? Broadband latency for most people is around 3-400 ms, so when you add 500 ms to that you are getting close to a 1 second delay on the chart, visually speaking.

Back in the old days (1980's), we used to trade with 200 ms delay or less on CQG machines on a basic phone line at 14,400 bps. Seems that somehow things are going backwards, not forwards.

This is also germane in that an increasing amount of volume in futures and forex markets is being driven by flash trade low latency program trading, so if retail users on Ninja are about 1 second behind, we are essentially being set up to provide those programs with more opportunities to hit our passive orders and - for them - a huge amount of time to do that in. This will actually tend to encourage an increasingly unfair market participation structure along with disadvantaging discretionary 'manual-trigger-pulling' daytraders.

To clarify, however:

a ) for auto-strategies being run, they are still being processed tick by tick so the only issue here is about the 1 second delay including internet latency on the chart refresh rate.

b ) suggestion: either have the price bar with last tick thingy update tick by tick or if that is not possible without whole chart refreshing, can the last price marker on the price axis update tick by tick?

I think this is a very important issue and it would be worth Ninja's time to more fully explain the issues on your end as to why this 500 ms feature is now being considered.

[aslane]

Could not agree more ccl.

While I am happy that the developers are at least adding the parameter back in, they have missed the boat for an important group of people. There are a lot of NT users with a wide range of abilities. Many just put stuff on charts, have lots of open charts, don't really understand the big picture under the covers, and have perf issues. This group will love the new changes. But what about the people at the other end that have a couple of simple indicators (or none), that have been benchmarked and optimized them, and know what they are doing? These people get shafted if they depend on min delay.

I can deal with charts that have a bunch of stuff on them updating a little less often, but if I have a chart with just price on it that I trade off of, why can it not update every tick? I suspect people would not be happy if the DOM or Time and Sales updated every 100ms.

I know it is a slippery slope, because once you expose it, everyone will turn it on, and there went most of the perf gains.

I don't know how NT is doing the chart refreshes, but I suspect they refresh the entire chart and are not doing incremental updates. Is this true?

[trader65]

I don't know how NT is doing the chart refreshes, but I suspect they refresh the entire chart and are not doing incremental updates. Is this true?

Ray ???

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

All,

I am closing this thread since we have already arrived at a finite conclusion which was to re-introduce a feature that was initially removed from NT7. I did leave this thread open so all could voice their opinions which you have. We have listened and provided back in the latest beta user configureable refresh rate with a min threshold of 100ms which seems to satisfy all of the earlier posters. The logic behind these decisions have all been answered in my prior posts.

In short -

- NT does not drop ticks and processes each and every one as they arrive including indicator and strategy updates
- Charts are updated on a user defined time base with a max 100 ms threshold
- Painting consumes CPU cycles and can impact performance which can result in lag --> This is more evident on unfiltered data feeds during high volatilty times
- Overall, you get a much more efficient application capable of processing and updating to the UI as fast as possible
- If you don't believe me, go ask TradeStation and any other trading platform application what refresh rates they impose on their UI's --> My guess is you will not get an answer