Important Poll: Everyone Please Respond

[JS999]

True, but many of those types of charts should really be set to update on bar close.

That setting is just for indicators, isn't it? We're talking about how often the actual bars themselves are refreshed.

[aslane]

That setting is just for indicators, isn't it? We're talking about how often the actual bars themselves are refreshed.

Yes, I understand your point.

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

aslane,

To clarify, it is not that the bars do not "refresh". It is simply the visualization of the bars. No data events are "lost" for your NinjaScripts.

[mjc4118]

Question Josh.

Is the "CurrentBar" being updated tick by tick or on change of price or on the timer?

A clear answer to this may help clarify the whole discussion.

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

To clarify, ALL NinjaScripts are not influenced by anything being discussed in this thread. NinjaScripts will process tick by tick or at the end of each bar. There is no "refresh" setting limiting the processing of NinjaScripts.

This thread is relative to ONLY the refreshing of the display on the chart and NOT the underlying processing of indicators or strategies.

CurrentBar updates based on the scripts CalculateOnBarClose. Hope that helps.

[VTtrader]

To make the assumption that anyone who doesn't find this "extremely important" is not a "trader" or "daytrader", is simply false. I've been trading for 14 years and if I'm in a position for 60 seconds it starts feeling like a long-term investment. To you and someone who chooses to trade like you it may be extremely important, but that's as far as it goes.

Regardless of how fast your computer is or what the refresh rate of the chart is, it is still history. Having it redraw the chart at a faster rate doesn't change that fact, it just makes it slightly more recent history.
I prefer to have my orders in the marketplace so they can be executed before they become history. If my stop and target were delayed being submitted 1 clock cycle because the chart is busy redrawing history, it could have an adverse effect. Different strokes for different folks. You have your methodology, I have mine, but lets not make false assumptions.

As I said in my previous post, if the option can be added without affecting overall stability for those who choose not to use it, I have no problem with it.

VT

[JS999]

To make the assumption that anyone who doesn't find this "extremely important" is not a "trader" or "daytrader", is simply false. I've been trading for 14 years and if I'm in a position for 60 seconds it starts feeling like a long-term investment. To you and someone who chooses to trade like you it may be extremely important, but that's as far as it goes.

It was never stated that everyone who didn't have a problem with this wasn't a short-term trader... it's just likely that most of them are not. You may be one of the exceptions. Obviously there are some people who trade short term that don't mind this, but that's probably because they don't trade instruments that move all that fast. I would bet that you probably trade the e-mini, and not crude oil. For ES, .5 seconds refresh is probably fine. Especially since you have to get in and out with limit orders. There is a completely different trading style for different instruments, and in the fastest ones this refresh issue is a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

You have summed it up neatly with this statement. This is precisely why the option to change the refresh rate needs to be in there.

As I said in my previous post, if the option can be added without affecting overall stability for those who choose not to use it, I have no problem with it.

VT

I can guarantee you that it will not affect stability. It is not a really massive change to do this type of thing, and they already had this working just fine in version 6.5 for years with no problems. If they want to do it, they can easily do it and not adversely affect anything in the code for those that don't want to set their charts to a higher rate.

[Breakeven]

More choice is always better than less choice.

I would like the option to set my chart refresh to whatever suits MY trading needs and MY processing power.

Regardless if those needs are 0 or 5 seconds between redraws, it should be my choice to tweak the charts or not.

There is a warning in 6.5 regarding setting the chart update interval to a low setting. Keep the warning but please also keep the option to change the setting.

[VTtrader]

I agree, more options are better than fewer options. I also think that once someone is given an option it is harder to take it away.

I would bet Ray has had many times he has cursed the decision he made to make the chart refresh rate an "option" in the first place. I have used many different programs over the years, and never has this been an "option". It was simply set by the developers and that was that, it just occurred in the background without notice.

As a result, NT gets put in a no win position. They get publicly flamed on the forum for performance issues when they offer people customizable settings that people choose that cripple their machines, and they get publicly flamed from others if they take those choices away.

As Ray has said, and everyone should realize, this is a BETA version with a limited release. The key is to determine performance and stability under a wider distribution base than what it was previously tested under. It is not in it's final form. Removing the "customer choice" variables, allows the performance testing to be done under more controlled circumstances.

Ray mentioned he wasn't opposed to making the choice available, let's take him at his word, and let the beta test process unfold in a productive fashion.

VT

[Tremblinghandtrader]

- All ticks are processed and distributed to all subscribing objects immediately and no ticks are dropped (thus calculations are done per tick where needed with the exception that OnBarUpdate() may only be called once per bar should a user define this setting)
- The UI (Plot) routine of the chart is now fixed to timer driven twice per second thus its a display issue
- You may argue that having a visual update every tick is better than having it twice per second however, what you have to realize is that by doing so, you make the application work exponentially harder and can self impose some delay on your visual update and thus you actually have self imposed lag (speaking during high volatile times) where updating twice per second is just exponentially more efficient and gets you the visual updates faster (this is purely mathematical reality)

To clarify, ALL NinjaScripts are not influenced by anything being discussed in this thread. NinjaScripts will process tick by tick or at the end of each bar. There is no "refresh" setting limiting the processing of NinjaScripts.

Funny how NT sees the importance to have "NinjaScripts process tick by tick".

[VTtrader]

Why is that "funny"?

[Tremblinghandtrader]

Why is that "funny"?

I have always thought NT was built for systems traders not discretionary ones. No hot keys, DOM that's useless for anything but es. No Stock DOM, No FX DOM, Only three ATM exits etc etc.

This change adds to my view. They clearly see that setting the NinjaScripts to 0.5 sec default calculation is a disadvantage which is why they keep addressing that in this thread. Yet for some reason its not for discretionary traders??

That's funny at best!

[JS999]

I would bet Ray has had many times he has cursed the decision he made to make the chart refresh rate an "option" in the first place. I have used many different programs over the years, and never has this been an "option". It was simply set by the developers and that was that, it just occurred in the background without notice.

Maybe so, but I suspect that it is more frequent than twice per second. If all the charts could easily keep up with the market at 10 times per second, I wouldn't care nearly as much about this issue. We also had to have the ability to modify this because NT 6.5 had such terrible performance that we needed to be able to set the longer term charts to refresh less frequently in order to preserve CPU resources.

Ray mentioned he wasn't opposed to making the choice available, let's take him at his word, and let the beta test process unfold in a productive fashion.
VT

The point is, they did offer this option in 6.5, and it was critically important to some people (like me) in terms of why I purchased NT in the first place. In fact, the only reason I bought NT was because I saw the features in 6.5 and was told that I would be able to upgrade to 7 at no charge, and one of those important features was the ability to have the charts update quickly when data came in.

I never would have bought 6.5 at all if 7 hadn't been coming out soon, because of some of its known issues. I also never would have bought it if the refresh rate was locked at .5 seconds. In short, I purchased a lifetime license for this software only because I expected to be able to have the features of 6.5 available to me with the improved performance of 7. Now they are trying to take that away, and it is a serious problem. A customer has a reasonable expectation that when they purchase a lifetime license for something, that the subsequent versions of that thing are going to contain the same major features as the original piece of software.

Some people don't care about this, but for most it is a very important issue... as you can see from the poll above. I don't know what there is to think about or debate here, fully 50% of the respondents are saying that this is a critical issue to them. The results are clear, and the poll is over. They need to fix this, and there is no need to drag out this discussion any longer.

[mjc4118]

This thread is relative to ONLY the refreshing of the display on the chart and NOT the underlying processing of indicators or strategies.

CurrentBar updates based on the scripts CalculateOnBarClose. Hope that helps.

We understand Josh. Let me rephrase the question. The CurrentBar - or "last bar" that is displayed on the charts the bar that has not closed and is not historical...but that is being updated by current price ...That bar also only gets refreshed off the timer? or on Price Change? I would think there would/could be a difference in refreshing ALL data and refreshing the data for one candle.

Also the PRICE DATA ...Bid/Ask on the chart trader... Does that only get updated/refreshed off the timer ....or on price change / # contracts/shares change? and the Current Price Marker ..on the SCALE for the data series ...is that updated on change of Price ... or refreshed on the timer?

Or is it JUST the Indicator Plots and historical price/candle data that gets repainted/Refreshed off the timer. It makes a big difference in how people see price...if the current candle . where price is active is getting refreshed off the timer. I think part of the issue here is that people are not CLEAR exactly what VISUAL aspects of the chart are effected by this ...ALL or PART of it.

We understand about strategies not be effected. Not all people use strategies to execute trades. Many are visual traders.

I would think that you could have the LAST CANDLE/Current Candle/current price marker update on change of price regardless of time without triggering the repaint of the entire canvas or the refresh. So the question is ... Does the timed paint/repaint effect ALL data displayed in the chart window...or simply Plot/indicator data for re-calculation of indicator values etc.

Just trying to clarify...

[VTtrader]

Perhaps you missed my point.
NT7 hasn't been released yet. You have access to it as a beta tester, but let them work out the issues and then judge it in it's final form when it is released.

VT