Point And Figure bars

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Thanks for the feedback MicroAl

[Eagle]

For every trading application, there have been few different ways to interpret and implement the algorithms for PNF, each one has been touted by some expert over time and developed a list of supporters or detractors.

I do commend that Ninjatrader has actually decided to implement this useful charting style, however in its current format its unusable.
For one there seems to be a confusion between the box and the reversal. A move in the direction of the prevailing trend adds a box even if its one tick. I tested this using a 1 x 2 reversal, and the charts do not update correctly for the instrument tested GBL( bund)

One of the issues could be the use of floating point integers, and how the comparisons are made using small tick sizes. ie 0.01 . These would also impact currencies if anyone is attempting to chart that. A while ago I used a different application for charting and they had some problems resolving this. I would recommend if you are able to look into that as it solved the problem for them.

I am currently using marketdelta, and they have done an admirable job of getting their PNF algorithm working correctly. May be helpful to take a look as pulling up the two applications shows totally different charts.

Second I experienced a fatal crash which resulted when changing the settings from a 2 x3 to a 1 x 2 chart.
Thanks

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Eagle,

Thank you for the comments. For the fatal crash were there any indicators on the chart? Any strategies? Can you please attach the trace files for that date? Thank you.

[Eagle]

Eagle,

Thank you for the comments. For the fatal crash were there any indicators on the chart? Any strategies? Can you please attach the trace files for that date? Thank you.

No indicators nothing only the point and figure charts, what else would one need?

[Eagle]

This does not seem to be fixed in build 4 , the issue of how are new bars are being created.

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Eagle,

Thanks for reporting back. Are you able to reproduce at will? We are having trouble reproducing on our end.

[Eagle]

I am not referring to the crash I am talking about how the bars are being created , your algorithm is incorrect, or its the floating point comparison issue further up the thread

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

We would need to know specifically what you feel is incorrect. For sure, we are starting a new X/O on each new session vs carrying over from the prior session. Maybe this is the discrepancy that you see?

[jdfagan]

We would need to know specifically what you feel is incorrect. For sure, we are starting a new X/O on each new session vs carrying over from the prior session. Maybe this is the discrepancy that you see?

This is part of the problem I still see with both P&F charts and Renko charts. RJay's suggestion to have "Reset at new session - true/false" would please both camps on either side of this issue of resetting in midst of bar being generated due to time for non time based charts (i.e., P&F, Renko, etc.).

[Eagle]

We would need to know specifically what you feel is incorrect. For sure, we are starting a new X/O on each new session vs carrying over from the prior session. Maybe this is the discrepancy that you see?

Thanks for your response. This is not the issue. Purists would say that starting a new bar is not correct, whereas I feel its more of a personal choice.

The problem lies in the one step forward two steps back of each bar using a 1 X 2 reversal.
For every 1 tick in the direction of the current bar whether it is an X or O a new box needs to be added. For every 2 boxes against this trend an opposite bar needs to be created.

Unfortunately your software does not do that.

My guess is its either the algo which is incorrect or how you take in to account the subtraction of floating points for instruments which have a tick of 0.01 or 0.0001 like currencies

I would suggest looking at Linnsoft or Marketdelta as they have it correctly implemented. A similar problem exists with Renko which I brought up in another post. Running Ninja side by side with the same datafeed IQFeed and MarketDelta results in a total different picture.

It would be really great if you could have someone look into this and have it fixed. As it allows so many more opportunities.

Best regards

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Thanks for the additional clarification Eagle, we will look into this.

[johannes]

Dear Ray,

It has almost been a month ago that I posted 6 points on which the P&F implementation of NT7 missed the point of a proper implementation. Since then I haven't seen any noticeable changes to the P&F charts, but I was wondering what the ideas / plans are? Are there already any decisions made?

Don't want to push you or anything, just out of curiosity!

Cheers

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

No decisions have been made. PnF is at the bottom of our priority list at this time.

[aslane]

Playing with renko bars today, and I would also ask for an option to select whether bars should be reset at a session boundary (for all bar types). The current implementation is not correct.

You could argue that it does not matter, but it really does, as each bar should have the same size, and I should be able to move the start of the session anywhere, and the bar structure should be the same (unless you remove part of the session).

It is also very relevant when you are applying indicators to the bars. That little reset can throw off the entire chart structure moving forward.

[johannes]

No decisions have been made. PnF is at the bottom of our priority list at this time.

Thanks for the update!